[News] The Fight to Stop Cop City Won’t Stop: An Interview With Kamau Franklin

[Anti-Imperialist News]

The Fight to Stop Cop City Won’t Stop: An Interview With Kamau Franklin 
Another article follows this one!
https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/09/24/the-fight-to-stop-cop-city-wont-stop/ 
<https://jerichony.us12.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0aca83ec057f583557dec5ce0&id=2f0c471fea&e=e9f3d86b9a>


  The Fight to Stop Cop City Won’t Stop


    An Interview With Kamau Franklin


by Susie Day 
<https://jerichony.us12.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0aca83ec057f583557dec5ce0&id=c46f79b5e3&e=e9f3d86b9a>

The Atlanta Public Safety Training Center, intended to consume at least 
85 acres of forest adjacent to Atlanta’s Black working-class 
neighborhoods, is more accurately called Cop City. Slated to be one of 
the largest militarized police training centers in the nation, Cop City 
is owned by the nonprofit Atlanta Police Foundation, which, by paying 
$10 a year to lease the land, is funding about two-thirds of this $90 
million project, via corporate (Coca-Cola, Bank of America, UPS…) 
donations. No surprise, then, that people feel Cop City bears watching.

Kamau Franklin has been watching Cop City since its inception. A human 
rights attorney and full-on community organizer for over 30 years, Kamau 
helped found Community Movement Builders 
<https://jerichony.us12.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0aca83ec057f583557dec5ce0&id=4c8e141347&e=e9f3d86b9a>, 
a collective of residents and activists in Atlanta’s Black working-class 
and poor communities. CMB is one of many organizations in the Stop Cop 
City movement. If it weren’t for months of dedicated fightback by these 
groups and individual activists, Cop City would probably be ready to 
open by now.

But massive demonstrations, rallies, tree-sittings, encampments, vigils, 
petitions, and, more recently, a voters’ referendum have resoundingly 
delayed the project, despite retaliatory waves of arrests, indictments, 
and detentions. Most recently, Georgia’s attorney general charged 61 
Stop Cop City activists under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt 
Organizations Act (RICO). Originally designed to curb the mafia, RICO is 
used here to incriminate such mundane acts as handing out flyers, 
raising donations, or buying glue to make pamphlets – and could add 
prison sentences of five to 20 years. Having no idea of how all this 
will end, I asked Kamau how it began…

*Kamau Franklin: *In 2020 Community Movement Builders was one of the 
organizations doing a lot of work after the killing of George Floyd, 
Breonna Taylor, and, here in Atlanta, Rayshard Brooks – which took place 
less than a mile from our community house. We started organizing around 
police violence. Things were dying down, then all of a sudden, we 
started hearing about a plan by the city of Atlanta to build this 
militarized training center. They’d be renting over 300 acres, with 90 
acres scheduled to be deforested. This is land on what we’ve dubbed the 
Weelaunee Forest, which was Muscogee tribal lands…. It’s geared up to 
have a Blackhawk helicopter pad, over a dozen firing ranges, urban 
warfare training, mock cities….

Instantly, we saw this as twofold. One, it was a continuation of 
over-policing, in particular, of Black communities, which has led to 
gentrification and to 90% of those arrested in Atlanta being Black. Two, 
the Atlanta Police Foundation, using money from the city and private 
corporations not only in Atlanta but nationally, was targeting movements 
against police terror and violence.

*sd: *The project was announced in April 2021. What happened then?

*Kamau Franklin: *In April, May, June 2021, organizing really kicked 
off. At first, it was straightforward: standard community rallies, 
demonstrations, town halls. We had the second largest public hearing at 
City Hall, but even though we peeled off some city council members, Cop 
City was backed by the council and the mayor’s office. So the city 
council voted to sign a lease for the Atlanta Police Foundation. After 
that, they thought the movement would end.

But in June and July, folks slowly began to go into the forest and stay 
there. Rallies and demonstrations, in and out of the forest, continued 
to take place. That type of organizing went on for a while. It wasn’t 
until the end of 2022, when, through an open records request, we found 
that the Atlanta Police Foundation discussed charging movement 
organizers with domestic terrorism. Then in December 2022, they made 
their first raid into the forest against the forest defenders and 
arrested six people. This was the first wave of arrests of people 
charged with domestic terrorism.

Earlier on, there were arrests that took place during demos and rallies 
against Cop City, but those folks weren’t charged with domestic 
terrorism. Then, in January 2023, the police raided the forest again, 
arrested another six activists, and killed Tortuguita [Manuel Esteban 
Paez Terán, they/them, 26-year-old forest defender]. Later in January, 
another seven or so organizers doing a vigil for Tortuguita in downtown 
Atlanta were arrested for domestic terrorism. Weeks of action continued 
and, this March, well over 23 people were arrested at a music festival 
and charged with domestic terrorism.

In May, they arrested the organizers who helped make public the names of 
the police who killed Tortuguita. Then they charged people from the 
Atlanta Solidarity Fund – a bail fund for movement people – with 
white-collar crimes. Earlier this month, they charged 61 people –most of 
whom had already been arrested – with RICO charges, using the strangest 
indictment anyone has ever seen, that called things like “mutual aid” 
and solidarity work akin to racketeering. A little before that, they 
arrested four or five organizers who were passing out flyers. So we’ve 
had this litany of charges, from domestic terrorism to RICO, for the 
last eight to ten months.

*sd: *How do things stand? How many people are in jail; how many are 
still living in the forest?

*Kamau Franklin: *In January, they cleared the forest out –the Georgia 
Bureau of Investigation, the Atlanta Police Department, DeKalb County 
Bureau, County Police Department, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, 
and Homeland Security – they put a fence around the entire forest. So as 
of today, there are no more forest defenders. They’ve cleared some land; 
they have not done any structural build but may be laying pipe and doing 
other things. Most of the people arrested, if not all, have been 
released on bail. There’s maybe one person on an immigration hold, still 
locked up.

During the arrests – particularly on domestic terrorism charges – the 
police separated people who had in-state licenses from out-of-state 
people. Those who had Georgia driver’s licenses were, for the most part, 
let go; people from out-of-state, they charged with domestic terrorism, 
to further their narrative that these actions come from a bunch of 
outside agitators. The overwhelming majority of people arrested and 
charged with domestic terrorism were doing nothing more than sitting in 
tree huts or tents or attending a music festival or a rally. But 
charging domestic terrorism is meant to criminalize and frighten people 
away from the movement.

*sd: *Mainstream media talk about some Cop City protesters “crossing the 
line 
<https://jerichony.us12.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0aca83ec057f583557dec5ce0&id=39b49b770d&e=e9f3d86b9a>,” 
from free speech and civil disobedience into “terrorism.” Doesn’t 
terrorism imply violence? What exactly is considered domestic terrorism 
here?

*Kamau Franklin: *They’re talking about property destruction. There have 
been times when graffiti was written on walls; when corporate offices 
had their windows broken; a couple of occasions where equipment used to 
knock down trees was disabled or burnt. Those weren’t the vast majority 
of tactics used, but they have occasionally taken place.

We in the Stop Cop City movement don’t necessarily consider those acts 
of violence, right? But if you want to charge somebody with property 
destruction – if that’s what they were caught doing – then we’d fight 
the charges, but at least we’d understand why someone got charged. But 
those individual property acts are the basis for using, not only RICO 
but also domestic terrorism charges, against a larger movement.

*sd: *A news account of Tortuguita being killed mentions that, at the 
same time, a trooper was “seriously wounded.” What happened?

*Kamau Franklin: *The first news that morning was that a trooper in the 
woods was shot in his stomach while doing a forest clearing. A few 
minutes later, news came that a forest defender had been killed. The 
Georgia Bureau of Investigation immediately put out a press release, 
claiming that this forest defender shot the state trooper and that 
police forces – many forces – then shot back at Tortuguita and killed 
them. Right away, we began to challenge that narrative.

We asked folks in the surrounding neighborhood about hearing gunshots. 
They did not say, as the Georgia Bureau of Investigation did, that one 
shot was fired, then police returned fire. Neighborhood people said they 
heard a sudden burst of gunfire. We should be clear that the Georgia 
Bureau of Investigation claims there is no videotape of the actual 
shooting – but in bodycam footage of police in other areas where they 
were ripping up tents, you clearly hear a burst of gunfire reminiscent 
of what people in the community said. The officers themselves say, 
“What’s that? Sounds like suppressed fire 
<https://jerichony.us12.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0aca83ec057f583557dec5ce0&id=3c9cd1f122&e=e9f3d86b9a>,” 
which is code for cop fire. One of them also comments, “Are they 
shooting themselves?”

The official autopsy shows that there were 56 entry/exit wounds in 
Tortuguita’s body and no gun residue on Tortuguita’s palms. So it seems 
ridiculous that this young forest defender, with no prior criminal 
record whatsoever, fired a single bullet at police, risking suicide, 
knowing they would be met with 40 to 50 gunshots in return – 
particularly since the autopsy showed that they were shot with their 
palms up, covering their face, sitting in a crisscross position with 
bullet holes throughout their knees, lower legs, thighs. So we dispute 
the state’s narrative, that Tortuguita was out to kill a cop, and they 
had no choice but to fire back. At this late date, they haven’t even 
released the official report of how Tortuguita was killed.

*sd: *What about the many law enforcement agencies targeting Cop City 
protesters? Does this call to mind the olden days of COINTELPRO? Or is 
this something new?

*Kamau Franklin: *It definitely calls to mind COINTELPRO – and a newer 
form, as well. Obviously, throughout COINTELPRO’s history, work between 
local law enforcement and the Federal Bureau of Investigation was 
common. Early on, before any arrests took place, via an open records 
request, we found out that they had developed an actual task force: the 
Atlanta police, DeKalb County police, Georgia Bureau of Investigation, 
Homeland Security, and the FBI. What we have here are political actors: 
the governor, the mayor, the DeKalb County Commissioners Office, the 
police department, the Atlanta Police Foundation – a private actor – 
they have their own task force, rooted in destroying the Cop City 
movement, not only by trying to criminalize it, but by arresting it, and 
literally by killing members of it. We feel they just didn’t expect this 
movement to keep on going; they thought they’d stopped us.

*sd: *What’s the relationship between Atlanta’s communities and the Cop 
City activists? Where are Atlanta’s elite in all this?

*Kamau Franklin: *The elite – particularly the Black elite, in terms of 
preachers, business people, and former elected officials – have all 
supported this mayor’s building of Cop City. They’ve clearly sided with 
the corporations, which have donated literally millions of dollars to 
building Cop City. It’s gonna be the first time in this country’s 
history that a private, nonprofit organization, the Atlanta Police 
Foundation, will be responsible for the training of a municipal police 
department. The elite have been fully on board to make sure that no 
further uprisings take place; that folks go back into their individual 
holes in the ground and consume TV, buy products they’re told to buy and 
leave the governing to them.

On the other side is the everyday community member and organizer, who 
says, /We did not vote for this. /The area reserved for Cop City is 
adjacent to a working-class Black community, which had no votes. The 
forest had been designated for camping grounds and hiking trails – there 
were literal plans written up and passed for that community but were 
scrapped when Atlanta decided on Cop City. One reason this forest is so 
important is that it helps with flooding, something that happens a lot, 
with climate change. As they cut down trees, more flooding will take 
place in those communities.

So, through the biggest mass action tactic we’ve used – the referendum 
process – we’ve collected over 116,000 signatures from everyday 
Atlantans, who say they want to have a vote in whether Cop City gets 
built. We’ve collected more signatures than people who actually voted 
for the current mayor. That’s unheard of in this city, and maybe across 
the country. So, with everyday Atlantans – and what’s left of the 
working-class and poor communities that haven’t been pushed out – 
there’s a very good relationship of us talking to people, trying to 
understand their needs and desires.

*sd: *What’s happening with those signatures?

*Kamau Franklin: *Our original deadline was August 21, to collect 
approximately 58,000 signatures that would be verified as signatures of 
people registered to vote during the last mayoral election. So, as we’re 
getting closer to August 21, we start to hear that they’ll use 
“signature-match” and “exact-match,” two well-known voter-repression tools.

The important thing to understand here is that this is the Democratic 
Party doing all this – the same Party that sued the Georgia Republican 
Party for using these exact methods to take away votes when Stacey 
Abrams ran. Meanwhile, a judge had given us extra time –until September 
21 – so we continued collecting signatures. Then an appeals court stayed 
the judge’s order and said that we should stop collecting signatures. 
So, on Monday, September 11, we gave in the signatures we had. But then 
the city decided not to start verifying signatures, because of the stay 
issued by the court. This is a stall tactic; they know that, if we get 
this on the ballot, we will win at the polls.

*sd:* The RICO law used to charge those 61 people can include innocuous, 
nonviolent acts such as handing out a flyer. Could it also be used 
against people who’ve participated in this voter referendum?

*Kamau Franklin: *Yeah. The indictment is written in such a broad way 
that there could be future arrests, indictments, and charges. With RICO, 
anyone associated with organizing – even people who’ve been doing the 
referendum part – “Let’s put democracy to the test!” – could be charged 
with RICO for association with Stop Cop City activities.

*sd: *Isn’t RICO the same law that Fani Willis used to indict Trump?

*Kamau Franklin: *These laws are so fungible; they become tools of 
power, political expediency, in whoever’s hands they’re in. The domestic 
terrorism law itself was enacted after Dylann Roof shot up a church in 
South Carolina; it was supposed to protect so-called minorities against 
violent, extreme acts. That law has never been used before in Georgia – 
and the first time it’s used is to attack people opposing police 
violence. RICO has also been used against hip-hop artists, charging them 
with criminal enterprises.

You also have Attorney General Chris Carr, about to run for governor, 
trying to score points with his political base by charging these 
activists with RICO. To be honest, I don’t think he’s concerned about 
whether he’s able to prosecute and imprison people; he’s trying to throw 
red meat at a constituency. Particularly when you look at how he laid 
out the indictment, blaming anarchist ideology, suggesting that the 
beginning of the conspiracy – which is extremely important –happened the 
day George Floyd was murdered by police. No one had even heard about Cop 
City on that day, but he claims May 25, 2020, was the start of a 
criminal enterprise, because people had the nerve to challenge the 
supremacy of police in our communities.

*sd: *I’m wondering if “anarchism” isn’t some wonky prosecutorial way to 
convince the public that these charges are basically colorblind and not 
based on a fear of Black people.

*Kamau Franklin: *Yeah, it brings out this fear of Black folks. Also the 
fear of Antifa – I thought, when I read the indictment, that “anarchism” 
is almost like saying “communism.” This is more of a media campaign – 
because many people arrested weren’t anarchists at all, right? If he 
gets one or two convictions, he’ll be happy.

In the meantime, there are 61 people whose lives are overturned; who’ve 
lost jobs; been kicked out of school; and they have to raise the money 
to get to court dates. People’s lives are in limbo, and some will have 
to be rebuilt, under the fear of prison time. Because you have a corrupt 
state, which will use any means at its disposal to stamp out this movement.

*sd: *Could Cop City be built, even as these RICO cases go to court?

*Kamau Franklin: *Most definitely. The city has basically seized control 
of the physical area. There are trucks, trailers, all kinds of equipment 
there now, clearing forest land. They’ve knocked down over 70 or 80 
acres. This struggle has continued for two years, but we are definitely 
nearing some inflection point, the potential of the movement to stop Cop 
City. And even if we’re not successful – people don’t like to talk about 
that part – how do we still hold together? What are our future battles?

*sd: *Can you compare this to another time in history?

*Kamau Franklin: *I think Standing Rock is very comparable, in terms of 
the number of people, the multitude of forces, directly challenging 
tribal lands being taken away, climate change and fighting white 
supremacy, and capitalism. I also think there’s a direct correlation to 
what’s been happening in this country over the last ten years, since 
Trayvon Martin was killed, Mike Brown in Ferguson, George Floyd and 
others, where different uprisings and mobilizations have politicized a 
new generation of people.

I feel like people understand that we’re not only opposing bad policing; 
we’re opposing the very way in which cities – Atlanta being one example 
– operate to disenfranchise working-class and poor people; in this case, 
Black people. We’re not stopping because they tell us to stop; this 
movement has grown. We have socialists, communists, anarchists, 
revolutionaries, nationalists, community organizers, environmentalists, 
voting rights activists, and everyday community people – the 
expansiveness of this movement scares them. The diversity of tactics 
scares them, The fact that we haven’t sold each other out because of 
property destruction. They’ve not been able to divide us, for the most 
part, into “good” versus “bad” activists.

*sd: *Are protests still going on?

*Kamau Franklin: *Oh, yeah. Just a few days ago, there was quite a 
heroic protest, because it was /after/ people were charged with RICO. 
These organizers and activists, led by a clergy coalition, decided to go 
onto the blocked-off grounds, where Cop City’s planned to be built. They 
issued a stop-work order to the workers in Cop City. Five or six people 
were arrested. At the time, they were not charged with domestic 
terrorism or RICO. But their bravery, to understand that these charges 
may be hanging over their heads, and still protest…

And when we turned in all the referendum ballots, close to 300 people 
came with us. There are also conversations about actions next week; 
about a huge action in November. The referendum is just one part of the 
struggle. There will be actions throughout the struggle, as long as the 
struggle lasts. And we may still win.

susie day writes about prison, policing, and political activism. She’s 
also written political satire, a collection of which, /Snidelines: 
Talking Trash to Power/, was published in 2014. In 2020, her book, /The 
Brother You Choose: Paul Coates and Eddie Conway Talk About Life, 
Politics, and The Revolution /was published by Haymarket/./ She lives in 
New York City with her partner, the infamous Laura Whitehorn.








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