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<title>The Fight to Stop Cop City Won’t Stop: An Interview With
Kamau Franklin</title>
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<div><a
href="https://jerichony.us12.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0aca83ec057f583557dec5ce0&id=2f0c471fea&e=e9f3d86b9a"
target="_blank"
style="mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;color:
#007C89;font-weight:
normal;text-decoration:
underline;"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/09/24/the-fight-to-stop-cop-city-wont-stop/</a><br>
<h1 class="headline"
style="display:
block;margin: 0;padding:
0;color:
#202020;font-family:
Helvetica;font-size:
26px;font-style:
normal;font-weight:
bold;line-height:
125%;letter-spacing:
normal;text-align: left;">The
Fight to Stop Cop City
Won’t Stop</h1>
<div class="text_box
sub-heading-subscriber-area">
<h2 style="display:
block;margin: 0;padding:
0;color:
#202020;font-family:
Helvetica;font-size:
22px;font-style:
normal;font-weight:
bold;line-height:
125%;letter-spacing:
normal;text-align:
left;">An Interview With
Kamau Franklin</h2>
</div>
<br>
<span
class="post_author_intro">by</span>
<span class="post_author"><a
href="https://jerichony.us12.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0aca83ec057f583557dec5ce0&id=c46f79b5e3&e=e9f3d86b9a"
rel="nofollow"
style="mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;color:
#007C89;font-weight:
normal;text-decoration:
underline;"
moz-do-not-send="true">Susie
Day</a></span><br>
<br>
The Atlanta Public Safety
Training Center, intended to
consume at least 85 acres of
forest adjacent to Atlanta’s
Black working-class
neighborhoods, is more
accurately called Cop City.
Slated to be one of the
largest militarized police
training centers in the
nation, Cop City is owned by
the nonprofit Atlanta Police
Foundation, which, by paying
$10 a year to lease the
land, is funding about
two-thirds of this $90
million project, via
corporate (Coca-Cola, Bank
of America, UPS…) donations.
No surprise, then, that
people feel Cop City bears
watching.
<div class="post_content">
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">Kamau
Franklin has been
watching Cop City since
its inception. A human
rights attorney and
full-on community
organizer for over 30
years, Kamau helped
found <a
href="https://jerichony.us12.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0aca83ec057f583557dec5ce0&id=4c8e141347&e=e9f3d86b9a"
style="mso-line-height-rule: exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust:
100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
100%;color:
#007C89;font-weight:
normal;text-decoration:
underline;"
moz-do-not-send="true">Community
Movement Builders</a>,
a collective of
residents and activists
in Atlanta’s Black
working-class and poor
communities. CMB is one
of many organizations in
the Stop Cop City
movement. If it weren’t
for months of dedicated
fightback by these
groups and individual
activists, Cop City
would probably be ready
to open by now.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">But
massive demonstrations,
rallies, tree-sittings,
encampments, vigils,
petitions, and, more
recently, a voters’
referendum have
resoundingly delayed the
project, despite
retaliatory waves of
arrests, indictments,
and detentions. Most
recently, Georgia’s
attorney general charged
61 Stop Cop City
activists under the
Racketeer Influenced and
Corrupt Organizations
Act (RICO). Originally
designed to curb the
mafia, RICO is used here
to incriminate such
mundane acts as handing
out flyers, raising
donations, or buying
glue to make pamphlets –
and could add prison
sentences of five to 20
years. Having no idea of
how all this will end, I
asked Kamau how it
began…</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>Kamau
Franklin: </strong>In
2020 Community Movement
Builders was one of the
organizations doing a
lot of work after the
killing of George Floyd,
Breonna Taylor, and,
here in Atlanta,
Rayshard Brooks – which
took place less than a
mile from our community
house. We started
organizing around police
violence. Things were
dying down, then all of
a sudden, we started
hearing about a plan by
the city of Atlanta to
build this militarized
training center. They’d
be renting over 300
acres, with 90 acres
scheduled to be
deforested. This is land
on what we’ve dubbed the
Weelaunee Forest, which
was Muscogee tribal
lands…. It’s geared up
to have a Blackhawk
helicopter pad, over a
dozen firing ranges,
urban warfare training,
mock cities….</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">Instantly,
we saw this as twofold.
One, it was a
continuation of
over-policing, in
particular, of Black
communities, which has
led to gentrification
and to 90% of those
arrested in Atlanta
being Black. Two, the
Atlanta Police
Foundation, using money
from the city and
private corporations not
only in Atlanta but
nationally, was
targeting movements
against police terror
and violence.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>sd:
</strong>The project was
announced in April 2021.
What happened then?</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>Kamau
Franklin: </strong>In
April, May, June 2021,
organizing really kicked
off. At first, it was
straightforward:
standard community
rallies, demonstrations,
town halls. We had the
second largest public
hearing at City Hall,
but even though we
peeled off some city
council members, Cop
City was backed by the
council and the mayor’s
office. So the city
council voted to sign a
lease for the Atlanta
Police Foundation. After
that, they thought the
movement would end.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">But
in June and July, folks
slowly began to go into
the forest and stay
there. Rallies and
demonstrations, in and
out of the forest,
continued to take place.
That type of organizing
went on for a while. It
wasn’t until the end of
2022, when, through an
open records request, we
found that the Atlanta
Police Foundation
discussed charging
movement organizers with
domestic terrorism. Then
in December 2022, they
made their first raid
into the forest against
the forest defenders and
arrested six people.
This was the first wave
of arrests of people
charged with domestic
terrorism.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">Earlier
on, there were arrests
that took place during
demos and rallies
against Cop City, but
those folks weren’t
charged with domestic
terrorism. Then, in
January 2023, the police
raided the forest again,
arrested another six
activists, and killed
Tortuguita [Manuel
Esteban Paez Terán,
they/them, 26-year-old
forest defender]. Later
in January, another
seven or so organizers
doing a vigil for
Tortuguita in downtown
Atlanta were arrested
for domestic terrorism.
Weeks of action
continued and, this
March, well over 23
people were arrested at
a music festival and
charged with domestic
terrorism.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">In
May, they arrested the
organizers who helped
make public the names of
the police who killed
Tortuguita. Then they
charged people from the
Atlanta Solidarity Fund
– a bail fund for
movement people – with
white-collar crimes.
Earlier this month, they
charged 61 people –most
of whom had already been
arrested – with RICO
charges, using the
strangest indictment
anyone has ever seen,
that called things like
“mutual aid” and
solidarity work akin to
racketeering. A little
before that, they
arrested four or five
organizers who were
passing out flyers. So
we’ve had this litany of
charges, from domestic
terrorism to RICO, for
the last eight to ten
months.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>sd:
</strong>How do things
stand? How many people
are in jail; how many
are still living in the
forest?</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>Kamau
Franklin: </strong>In
January, they cleared
the forest out –the
Georgia Bureau of
Investigation, the
Atlanta Police
Department, DeKalb
County Bureau, County
Police Department, the
Federal Bureau of
Investigation, and
Homeland Security – they
put a fence around the
entire forest. So as of
today, there are no more
forest defenders.
They’ve cleared some
land; they have not done
any structural build but
may be laying pipe and
doing other things. Most
of the people arrested,
if not all, have been
released on bail.
There’s maybe one person
on an immigration hold,
still locked up.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">During
the arrests –
particularly on domestic
terrorism charges – the
police separated people
who had in-state
licenses from
out-of-state people.
Those who had Georgia
driver’s licenses were,
for the most part, let
go; people from
out-of-state, they
charged with domestic
terrorism, to further
their narrative that
these actions come from
a bunch of outside
agitators. The
overwhelming majority of
people arrested and
charged with domestic
terrorism were doing
nothing more than
sitting in tree huts or
tents or attending a
music festival or a
rally. But charging
domestic terrorism is
meant to criminalize and
frighten people away
from the movement.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>sd:
</strong>Mainstream
media talk about some
Cop City protesters “<a
href="https://jerichony.us12.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0aca83ec057f583557dec5ce0&id=39b49b770d&e=e9f3d86b9a"
style="mso-line-height-rule: exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust:
100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
100%;color:
#007C89;font-weight:
normal;text-decoration:
underline;"
moz-do-not-send="true">crossing
the line</a>,” from
free speech and civil
disobedience into
“terrorism.” Doesn’t
terrorism imply
violence? What exactly
is considered domestic
terrorism here?</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>Kamau
Franklin: </strong>They’re
talking about property
destruction. There have
been times when graffiti
was written on walls;
when corporate offices
had their windows
broken; a couple of
occasions where
equipment used to knock
down trees was disabled
or burnt. Those weren’t
the vast majority of
tactics used, but they
have occasionally taken
place.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">We
in the Stop Cop City
movement don’t
necessarily consider
those acts of violence,
right? But if you want
to charge somebody with
property destruction –
if that’s what they were
caught doing – then we’d
fight the charges, but
at least we’d understand
why someone got charged.
But those individual
property acts are the
basis for using, not
only RICO but also
domestic terrorism
charges, against a
larger movement.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>sd:
</strong>A news account
of Tortuguita being
killed mentions that, at
the same time, a trooper
was “seriously wounded.”
What happened?</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>Kamau
Franklin: </strong>The
first news that morning
was that a trooper in
the woods was shot in
his stomach while doing
a forest clearing. A few
minutes later, news came
that a forest defender
had been killed. The
Georgia Bureau of
Investigation
immediately put out a
press release, claiming
that this forest
defender shot the state
trooper and that police
forces – many forces –
then shot back at
Tortuguita and killed
them. Right away, we
began to challenge that
narrative.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">We
asked folks in the
surrounding neighborhood
about hearing gunshots.
They did not say, as the
Georgia Bureau of
Investigation did, that
one shot was fired, then
police returned fire.
Neighborhood people said
they heard a sudden
burst of gunfire. We
should be clear that the
Georgia Bureau of
Investigation claims
there is no videotape of
the actual shooting –
but in bodycam footage
of police in other areas
where they were ripping
up tents, you clearly
hear a burst of gunfire
reminiscent of what
people in the community
said. The officers
themselves say, “What’s
that? Sounds like <a
href="https://jerichony.us12.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0aca83ec057f583557dec5ce0&id=3c9cd1f122&e=e9f3d86b9a"
style="mso-line-height-rule: exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust:
100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
100%;color:
#007C89;font-weight:
normal;text-decoration:
underline;"
moz-do-not-send="true">suppressed
fire</a>,” which is
code for cop fire. One
of them also comments,
“Are they shooting
themselves?”</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">The
official autopsy shows
that there were 56
entry/exit wounds in
Tortuguita’s body and no
gun residue on
Tortuguita’s palms. So
it seems ridiculous that
this young forest
defender, with no prior
criminal record
whatsoever, fired a
single bullet at police,
risking suicide, knowing
they would be met with
40 to 50 gunshots in
return – particularly
since the autopsy showed
that they were shot with
their palms up, covering
their face, sitting in a
crisscross position with
bullet holes throughout
their knees, lower legs,
thighs. So we dispute
the state’s narrative,
that Tortuguita was out
to kill a cop, and they
had no choice but to
fire back. At this late
date, they haven’t even
released the official
report of how Tortuguita
was killed.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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sans-serif;font-size:
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100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>sd:
</strong>What about the
many law enforcement
agencies targeting Cop
City protesters? Does
this call to mind the
olden days of
COINTELPRO? Or is this
something new?</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>Kamau
Franklin: </strong>It
definitely calls to mind
COINTELPRO – and a newer
form, as well.
Obviously, throughout
COINTELPRO’s history,
work between local law
enforcement and the
Federal Bureau of
Investigation was
common. Early on, before
any arrests took place,
via an open records
request, we found out
that they had developed
an actual task force:
the Atlanta police,
DeKalb County police,
Georgia Bureau of
Investigation, Homeland
Security, and the FBI.
What we have here are
political actors: the
governor, the mayor, the
DeKalb County
Commissioners Office,
the police department,
the Atlanta Police
Foundation – a private
actor – they have their
own task force, rooted
in destroying the Cop
City movement, not only
by trying to criminalize
it, but by arresting it,
and literally by killing
members of it. We feel
they just didn’t expect
this movement to keep on
going; they thought
they’d stopped us.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>sd:
</strong>What’s the
relationship between
Atlanta’s communities
and the Cop City
activists? Where are
Atlanta’s elite in all
this?</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>Kamau
Franklin: </strong>The
elite – particularly the
Black elite, in terms of
preachers, business
people, and former
elected officials – have
all supported this
mayor’s building of Cop
City. They’ve clearly
sided with the
corporations, which have
donated literally
millions of dollars to
building Cop City. It’s
gonna be the first time
in this country’s
history that a private,
nonprofit organization,
the Atlanta Police
Foundation, will be
responsible for the
training of a municipal
police department. The
elite have been fully on
board to make sure that
no further uprisings
take place; that folks
go back into their
individual holes in the
ground and consume TV,
buy products they’re
told to buy and leave
the governing to them.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">On
the other side is the
everyday community
member and organizer,
who says, <em>We did
not vote for this. </em>The
area reserved for Cop
City is adjacent to a
working-class Black
community, which had no
votes. The forest had
been designated for
camping grounds and
hiking trails – there
were literal plans
written up and passed
for that community but
were scrapped when
Atlanta decided on Cop
City. One reason this
forest is so important
is that it helps with
flooding, something that
happens a lot, with
climate change. As they
cut down trees, more
flooding will take place
in those communities.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">So,
through the biggest mass
action tactic we’ve used
– the referendum process
– we’ve collected over
116,000 signatures from
everyday Atlantans, who
say they want to have a
vote in whether Cop City
gets built. We’ve
collected more
signatures than people
who actually voted for
the current mayor.
That’s unheard of in
this city, and maybe
across the country. So,
with everyday Atlantans
– and what’s left of the
working-class and poor
communities that haven’t
been pushed out –
there’s a very good
relationship of us
talking to people,
trying to understand
their needs and desires.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>sd:
</strong>What’s
happening with those
signatures?</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>Kamau
Franklin: </strong>Our
original deadline was
August 21, to collect
approximately 58,000
signatures that would be
verified as signatures
of people registered to
vote during the last
mayoral election. So, as
we’re getting closer to
August 21, we start to
hear that they’ll use
“signature-match” and
“exact-match,” two
well-known
voter-repression tools.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">The
important thing to
understand here is that
this is the Democratic
Party doing all this –
the same Party that sued
the Georgia Republican
Party for using these
exact methods to take
away votes when Stacey
Abrams ran. Meanwhile, a
judge had given us extra
time –until September 21
– so we continued
collecting signatures.
Then an appeals court
stayed the judge’s order
and said that we should
stop collecting
signatures. So, on
Monday, September 11, we
gave in the signatures
we had. But then the
city decided not to
start verifying
signatures, because of
the stay issued by the
court. This is a stall
tactic; they know that,
if we get this on the
ballot, we will win at
the polls.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>sd:</strong>
The RICO law used to
charge those 61 people
can include innocuous,
nonviolent acts such as
handing out a flyer.
Could it also be used
against people who’ve
participated in this
voter referendum?</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>Kamau
Franklin: </strong>Yeah.
The indictment is
written in such a broad
way that there could be
future arrests,
indictments, and
charges. With RICO,
anyone associated with
organizing – even people
who’ve been doing the
referendum part – “Let’s
put democracy to the
test!” – could be
charged with RICO for
association with Stop
Cop City activities.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>sd:
</strong>Isn’t RICO the
same law that Fani
Willis used to indict
Trump?</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>Kamau
Franklin: </strong>These
laws are so fungible;
they become tools of
power, political
expediency, in whoever’s
hands they’re in. The
domestic terrorism law
itself was enacted after
Dylann Roof shot up a
church in South
Carolina; it was
supposed to protect
so-called minorities
against violent, extreme
acts. That law has never
been used before in
Georgia – and the first
time it’s used is to
attack people opposing
police violence. RICO
has also been used
against hip-hop artists,
charging them with
criminal enterprises.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">You
also have Attorney
General Chris Carr,
about to run for
governor, trying to
score points with his
political base by
charging these activists
with RICO. To be honest,
I don’t think he’s
concerned about whether
he’s able to prosecute
and imprison people;
he’s trying to throw red
meat at a constituency.
Particularly when you
look at how he laid out
the indictment, blaming
anarchist ideology,
suggesting that the
beginning of the
conspiracy – which is
extremely important
–happened the day George
Floyd was murdered by
police. No one had even
heard about Cop City on
that day, but he claims
May 25, 2020, was the
start of a criminal
enterprise, because
people had the nerve to
challenge the supremacy
of police in our
communities.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>sd:
</strong>I’m wondering
if “anarchism” isn’t
some wonky prosecutorial
way to convince the
public that these
charges are basically
colorblind and not based
on a fear of Black
people.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>Kamau
Franklin: </strong>Yeah,
it brings out this fear
of Black folks. Also the
fear of Antifa – I
thought, when I read the
indictment, that
“anarchism” is almost
like saying “communism.”
This is more of a media
campaign – because many
people arrested weren’t
anarchists at all,
right? If he gets one or
two convictions, he’ll
be happy.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">In
the meantime, there are
61 people whose lives
are overturned; who’ve
lost jobs; been kicked
out of school; and they
have to raise the money
to get to court dates.
People’s lives are in
limbo, and some will
have to be rebuilt,
under the fear of prison
time. Because you have a
corrupt state, which
will use any means at
its disposal to stamp
out this movement.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>sd:
</strong>Could Cop City
be built, even as these
RICO cases go to court?</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>Kamau
Franklin: </strong>Most
definitely. The city has
basically seized control
of the physical area.
There are trucks,
trailers, all kinds of
equipment there now,
clearing forest land.
They’ve knocked down
over 70 or 80 acres.
This struggle has
continued for two years,
but we are definitely
nearing some inflection
point, the potential of
the movement to stop Cop
City. And even if we’re
not successful – people
don’t like to talk about
that part – how do we
still hold together?
What are our future
battles?</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>sd:
</strong>Can you compare
this to another time in
history?</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>Kamau
Franklin: </strong>I
think Standing Rock is
very comparable, in
terms of the number of
people, the multitude of
forces, directly
challenging tribal lands
being taken away,
climate change and
fighting white
supremacy, and
capitalism. I also think
there’s a direct
correlation to what’s
been happening in this
country over the last
ten years, since Trayvon
Martin was killed, Mike
Brown in Ferguson,
George Floyd and others,
where different
uprisings and
mobilizations have
politicized a new
generation of people.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">I
feel like people
understand that we’re
not only opposing bad
policing; we’re opposing
the very way in which
cities – Atlanta being
one example – operate to
disenfranchise
working-class and poor
people; in this case,
Black people. We’re not
stopping because they
tell us to stop; this
movement has grown. We
have socialists,
communists, anarchists,
revolutionaries,
nationalists, community
organizers,
environmentalists,
voting rights activists,
and everyday community
people – the
expansiveness of this
movement scares them.
The diversity of tactics
scares them, The fact
that we haven’t sold
each other out because
of property destruction.
They’ve not been able to
divide us, for the most
part, into “good” versus
“bad” activists.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>sd:
</strong>Are protests
still going on?</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
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sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><strong>Kamau
Franklin: </strong>Oh,
yeah. Just a few days
ago, there was quite a
heroic protest, because
it was <em>after</em>
people were charged with
RICO. These organizers
and activists, led by a
clergy coalition,
decided to go onto the
blocked-off grounds,
where Cop City’s planned
to be built. They issued
a stop-work order to the
workers in Cop City.
Five or six people were
arrested. At the time,
they were not charged
with domestic terrorism
or RICO. But their
bravery, to understand
that these charges may
be hanging over their
heads, and still
protest…</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">And
when we turned in all
the referendum ballots,
close to 300 people came
with us. There are also
conversations about
actions next week; about
a huge action in
November. The referendum
is just one part of the
struggle. There will be
actions throughout the
struggle, as long as the
struggle lasts. And we
may still win.</p>
<p style="font-weight:
normal;color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
16px;font-style:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"> </p>
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<p
class="author_description"
style="color:
#000000;font-family:
Arial, "Helvetica
Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:
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normal;font-weight:
normal;line-height:
100%;text-align:
left;margin: 10px
0;padding:
0;mso-line-height-rule:
exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"> </p>
<div>susie day writes
about prison, policing,
and political activism.
She’s also written
political satire, a
collection of which, <em>Snidelines:
Talking Trash to Power</em>,
was published in 2014.
In 2020, her book, <em>The
Brother You Choose:
Paul Coates and Eddie
Conway Talk About
Life, Politics, and
The Revolution </em>was
published by Haymarket<em>.</em> She
lives in New York City
with her partner, the
infamous Laura
Whitehorn.<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
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