[News] Current policy direction of Hamas on a number of critical issues
Anti-Imperialist News
news at freedomarchives.org
Tue Oct 19 14:12:39 EDT 2010
Meshaal interview on Hamas Policy A MUST READ!!
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Post Oct 19th, 2010 at 8:35
http://palestinethinktank.com/2010/10/19/meshaal-interview-on-hamas-policy-a-must-read/
Since 1996, Khaled Mesh'al has been the Chairman
of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas)
Political Bureau. After the assassination of
Hamas leader Abdul 'Aziz Rantisi in 2004 by
Israeli forces, Mesh'al became the movement's
overall leader. He lives in exile in Damascus,
from where he oversees the movement's activities
both within Palestine and outside.
The most recent interview with Mesh'al was
conducted by the Jordanian Arabic-language
Al-Sabeel newspaper in July 2010. In it, Mesh'al
laid out the policy direction of Hamas on a
number of critical issues: negotiations with
Israel, recognition of Israel, resistance, Jews,
Christians, women, among other issues. In the
Arab world, the lengthy interview is being viewed
as highly significant, and is regarded as a clear
indication of positions that Hamas wants to
pursue, especially with regard to its future
attitude towards Israel. The Afro-Middle East
Centre (AMEC) translated the interview into
English and publishes it here to make it
accessible to a wider audience, and to allow for
greater understanding of the political and other
perspectives of a movement which has become one
of the most important role-players in the Middle
East today. It is an important piece
articulating, in its own words, the perspectives
of Hamas' leadership, and is critical reading for
observers of the Middle East, and policy-makers
for whom the Middle East is important.
On negotiations
Do you reject, in principle, negotiations with
the enemy? If negotiations cannot be conducted
with the enemy, is it possible to do so with a
friend? Does Hamas reject the principle of
negotiations outright, or do you reject its form, conduct and results?
This is definitely a thorny and sensitive issue.
Many people prefer to avoid any discussion of it,
and tend not to take any clear position on it for
fear of negative reactions or misinterpretations.
The sensitive and critical nature of this issue
is compounded by the dark shadows that are cast
as a result of the bitter experiences of
Palestinian-Israeli and Arab-Israeli
negotiations. People are influenced by these
experiences, and are extremely sensitive towards
the idea of "negotiations", particularly with
regard to the collective mind and mood of the
nation. There is now, in many quarters, loathing
for and aversion to the concept of negotiations.
This is quite understandable and natural, but
this does not preclude us tackling the issue
thoroughly, and sorting through matters
carefully, so as to set every detail into context, God willing.
It is indisputable that negotiating with the
enemy is not rejected, either legally or
rationally; indeed, there are some stages during
a conflict among enemies when negotiations are
required and become necessary. Both from a
rational perspective and from legal logic, it is
true that negotiations as a means and a tool may
be acceptable and legitimate at certain points in
time, and rejected and prohibited at other times;
that is, it is not rejected in itself nor is it rejected all the time.
In Islamic history, in the era of the Prophet
(peace be upon him), and in subsequent ages at
the time of Salahuddin [Saladin], for example
negotiation with the enemy was conducted, but
within a clear framework and a specific
philosophy, within a context, vision, rules and
regulations governing this negotiation. This is
in stark contrast to the wretched approach taken
by those negotiation professionals who consider
it a way of life, and regard it as the sole
strategic option in the service of which all other options are ruled out.
If resistance itself, honourable and esteemed as
it is, is a means and not an end, does it make
sense to make negotiations an end, an only option
and a constant approach, rather than being a
means and a tactic to fall back on when necessary
and when the context requires it?
The concept in the Qur'an is clear, when God
Almighty says: "And if they incline to peace,
incline (you also to peace), and trust in God."
This implies that negotiation is acceptable,
reasonable and logical for us as advocates of a
just cause when the enemy is forced to resort to
it, when they come to us ready for negotiation
and for paying the price, and to respond to our
demands. However, if we seek it desperately and
consider it our only option, then we will be the
ones paying the price. Those who are forced to
negotiate are those who usually pay the price.
Hence God Almighty says in another verse: "Do not
weaken and call for peace when you have the upper hand."
We go back to the first verse: "And if they
incline to peace, incline (you also to peace),
and trust in God," which is preceded by God
Almighty's saying: "Prepare for them what you can
of power, including steeds of war to terrify the
enemy of God and your enemy." What does this
mean? It means that possessing power and its
means is what drives the enemy forcibly towards
peace, and that the enemy's inclination to peace
and negotiation is a result of jihad, resistance
and the possession of power. Those who consider
negotiation without resistance and without any
power cards are virtually heading for surrender.
In the science of strategy and conflict
management, negotiation is an extension to war,
and a form of war management. What you obtain by
negotiating at the table is a product of your
condition on the ground, and an outcome of the
balance of power in the battlefield. If you are
vanquished in the battlefield, you will certainly
be defeated in the negotiations as well. Just as
war requires a balance of power, negotiations and
peace each require a balance of power, for peace
cannot be made when one party is powerful and the
other weak; otherwise, this will be surrender.
The United States did not make peace with Japan
and Germany after World War II, but, rather,
imposed surrender and a pact of compliance and
submission on them. In short, peace is made by
the powerful and not the weak; negotiations may
serve the powerful but not the weak.
The conflict with Israeli occupation is
different, as this is a case of a body alien to
the region, which came from outside and imposed
itself on a land and a people, drove people away
from their land, and replaced them with an
immigrant diaspora from all over the world. This
is, therefore, a complex situation which must be dealt with delicately.
When objective conditions and requirements for
negotiation are available, especially the
presence of sufficient balance and relative
equilibrium; when there is proven need for it at
the appropriate time without hurry or delay
then it could be one of the options we resort to
as a mechanism, means and tool, not as an
objective or an end, not as a permanent condition
or a strategic option. Negotiation is a tactical
instrument, and just as war is not a permanent
condition and has its requirements and conditions, so too does negotiation.
With this clear view of negotiations, and when it
is exercised with great caution and under strict
rules at the right time, it will be acceptable
and useful in the context of conflict management;
otherwise it will lead only to surrender and
submission to the enemy's hegemony and
conditions, and will result in the neglect of
rights and a continuous decline in the level of
demands and political positions.
Unfortunately, the Arab and Palestinian condition
regarding this issue is mostly very bad; it
is a vulnerable position, with no bargaining
chips, support, manoeuvre or margin for
ambiguity. The Palestinian ranks are fully
exposed, so they go to peace declaring it to be
their only strategic option. When your enemy is
aware that you have no option but to negotiate,
and you talk of nothing but peace, and have no
other option, what will force them to make concessions to you?
The Palestinian negotiators say: "Negotiation is
the option, the course and the only plan." They
coordinate security with the enemy and implement
the "Road Map" and its security requirements
freely, with Israel offering nothing in return.
What is there to force Olmert or Netanyahu to grant the Palestinians anything?
Negotiation in the Palestinian case is out of its
objective context; it is, merely from the
perspective of political logic, lacking
resistance and not based on the necessary power
balance. The Vietnamese for instance
negotiated with the Americans as the latter were
retreating. Thus, negotiations were useful for
turning the last page on American occupation and
aggression. You are successful in negotiations
and in imposing your conditions on the enemy
depending on the number of power cards you have on the ground.
Hence, for negotiations not to be a risky and
onerous process, you need to make clear to the
enemy not only in words, but in deed as well
your message that you are open to all options.
The negotiator cannot succeed without basing his
position on the multiplicity of options, meaning
that, inasmuch as you are ready for negotiations,
you are also ready and able to go to war. If
negotiations reaches a deadlock, you must be
prepared to go to war, attrition or resistance;
otherwise negotiation will be useless. We must
remember that negotiations during the wars of old
were often conducted on the battlefield, and the
negotiators would either reach a solution, or
resume the war. Negotiation is a tool and a
tactic in the service of a strategy and is not a
strategy in itself; it is not a substitute for a
strategy of resistance and confrontation with the occupation.
Negotiation needs to be based on unity at a
national level. If one party sees benefit in a
certain step towards negotiation, and pursues
such a decision alone and without referring to
the people, they will be placing themselves in a
difficult situation and will grant the enemy an
opportunity which it will certainly use against
them. This could also cause the negotiators to
make significant concessions for fear that they
might later be forced to acknowledge the failure
of their negotiation option. Thus they prioritise
their own interest over the national one in order
not to be exposed in front of their people and others.
Negotiation has its specific spaces and domains
and is not an absolute option in all matters.
There are issues such as critical constants
that should not be negotiated. Negotiation is a
mechanism and a tactic within specific margins
and domains; no one in their right mind would
negotiate on everything, especially not on the
principles. In business, negotiation is often on
profits and not on business assets.
Unfortunately, the current experience, especially
of the Palestinian negotiations, is that all these rules have been abandoned.
In all honesty and courage I say: negotiation is
not absolutely prohibited or forbidden, be it
from a legal or political perspective, or in view
of the experiences of the nation and humanity, or
the practices of the resistance movements and
revolutions throughout history. However, it must
be subject to equations, regulations,
calculations, circumstances, contexts and proper
management, for without these it becomes a negative and destructive tool.
Regarding the Palestinian case, we say that
negotiation with Israel today is the wrong
choice. A proposal was put forward to Hamas
directly to negotiate with Israel but we refused.
Some from among the Hamas leadership received a
proposal to meet with a number of Israeli
leaders, some of them in power, such as [Israeli
Deputy Prime Minister and Shas Party leader] Eli
Yishai, and others belonging to the peace camp.
Hamas has rejected these offers.
Negotiations today under the current balance of
power is in the service of the enemy, and does
not serve the Palestinian side. The conflict on
the ground has not developed in a manner that has
forced the Zionist enemy to resort to
negotiation; it refuses to this day to withdraw
from the land, and does not recognise Palestinian
rights. Thus negotiations in such conditions is a fruitless gamble.
In light of our weakness and the imbalance of
power, Israel is using negotiations as a tool to
improve its relations and polish its image before
the international community, and using it to gain
time so as to create new facts on the ground
through settlement-building, expelling people,
the Judaising of Jerusalem, and the demolition of
its neighbourhoods. It also uses negotiations as
a cover to distract attention from its crimes and
to water down Palestinian demands. Israel is
exploiting negotiations to normalise its
relations with the Arab and Islamic world, to
penetrate it, and to distort the nature of the
conflict; Israel is the sole beneficiary of the negotiations as they stand.
Negotiations under the existing imbalance of
power is a subjugation of the Palestinian side to
the requirements, conditions and dictates of the
Israeli occupation. This is not an equal process,
for just as there is currently no parity in the
field of confrontation, there is also no parity around the negotiating table.
On recognising Israel
The issue of recognising the Zionist entity
raises much debate. There is also talk of legal
recognition in contrast to realistic or pragmatic
recognition. What is the position of Hamas on this issue?
Our position regarding the acknowledgement of the
occupation's legality is clear and settled, and
we do not hide or conceal it. Recognising Israel
has been laid down as a condition for the
international community opening up to Hamas, and
so this has become an obstacle in our way. But we
did not care, and we showed determination to
withstand this challenge. Recognition means
legitimising the occupation and conferring
legitimacy upon Israel's aggression, settlement,
Judaisation, murders, arrests and other crimes
and atrocities against our people and our land.
This is unacceptable according to international
law and human values, not to mention our religion.
It is unacceptable to legitimise occupation and
theft of land. Occupation is a crime, theft is a
crime, and should not be legitimised under any
circumstances. These are uncontroversial concepts
in the common human understanding, and so is the
conception of the Palestinian victim whose land
was usurped. This is an issue tied to our human
existence, and it contrasts with recognising the
legitimacy of occupation and usurpation, not to
mention the patriotic and religious feelings,
cultural affiliation and historical presence, which all link us to this land.
Others have fallen into this trap due to their
ineffectiveness and submission to external
pressures, and they thought that bowing to these
conditions and pressures may make it easier for
them to advance in their political agenda.
However, it was practically demonstrated that
they have paid an exorbitant price for an
illusion. They were wrong in their logic of
interests, and wrong in their logic of principles.
We reject recognition in both legal and pragmatic
senses. There is a difference between saying
there is an enemy called "Israel" on the one
hand, and acknowledging its legitimacy on the
other; the former is not really recognition. In
short, we refuse to recognise the legitimacy of
Israel because we refuse to recognise the
legitimacy of occupation and theft of land. For
us, this principle is clear and definitive.
Are you not surprised at the Israeli and
international insistence on your recognising
Israel? Is this not, in some way, a sign of
weakness, as Israel sounds like it is questioning
its own existence, and demanding that others
recognise the legitimacy of this existence?
Without a doubt, the enemy is concerned about the
future of its entity, particularly in light of
the latest developments. Its psychology is that
of a thief and a criminal who ultimately feels
like an outlaw lacking legitimacy, no matter how
strong he may become. The demand for recognition
is certainly a sign of weakness, an expression of
an inferiority complex, lack of confidence in the
future of this entity, a feeling that it is
illegitimate and still rejected by the peoples of
the region as alien, and that the mere presence
of a steadfast Palestinian people is a practical
expression of the rejection of the Zionist entity.
Yet, there is another dimension, which is the
feeling of superiority. This is the logic by
which Western nations deal with third world
countries. The Zionists adopt the same logic
based on military supremacy, and feel that they
are the party that has the right to dictate terms
to others, including dictating preconditions for any negotiations.
Some Palestinian and Arab parties have,
unfortunately, responded to this logic. This is
unacceptable imbalance. In our dialogues with
foreign delegations, we hear them constantly
talking about the conditions of the Quartet; some
of them introduce revised conditions to make it
easier for us to accept them. We refused all
conditions on principle, and refused discussing
them even in the context of seeking revised
formulas. We reject the principle of conditions,
for it suggests that there are two levels of
human beings, and one party can dominate the
other, one party having the upper hand and the
other the lower. Our humanity, dignity and
self-respect state that we are on par with others
even if they are militarily stronger; hence we
refuse to be dealt with through preconditions.
Unfortunately, one of the mistakes causing them
to persist in this approach is that some people
have accepted these conditions, including the
issue of recognition. They then made another
mistake by not exchanging the recognition of
Israel for the recognition of Palestinian rights,
but preferred, rather, to be recognised
themselves. This is a significant flaw added to
the original one, namely recognition! It is
preposterous to recognise Israel in return for
its recognition of the Palestine Liberation
Organisation or another movement instead of
recognising the Palestinian people or state or
rights. This implies that you have swapped public
interest for personal interests, and have swapped
the grand national objective for a petty partisan
one. As we say this, we emphasise our rejection
of the issue of recognition, regardless of the price.
Therefore, in our conversations with those
Western delegations [who ask us to recognise
Israel], we tell them: "Although we are eager to
communicate with you and open up to the world, we
are not begging or looking for Western
recognition of Hamas. This does not concern us.
Our legitimacy stems from the Palestinian people;
the ballot boxes; Palestinian democracy; the
legitimacy of struggle, sacrifice and resistance;
and our Arab and Islamic depth. We are not
looking for legitimacy from abroad; what we are
seeking to achieve and obtain is recognition of
Palestinian rights and the right of our people to
freedom, deliverance from the occupation, and the
right to self-determination. This will not be in
exchange for recognition, because recognition is
ultimately an acknowledgement of the legitimacy
of occupation, aggression and land theft."
In your opinion, why do the international
community and the Israelis reject the long-term truce proposed by Hamas?
This rejection by the Zionist entity, the US
administration, and other international parties is due to several reasons.
The first reason: the logic of power, superiority
and hegemony of these parties. They believe that
their superior power allows them to impose what
they want on us, and to consider us Arabs and
Palestinians as the defeated party which has no
choice but to sign the instrument of surrender in
the same way as Germany and Japan did in the
aftermath of World War II, and not to provide
solutions and ideas such as the truce.
The second reason: they see Arab and Palestinian
parties making more enticing offers. So how would
they respond to a truce offer when others offer
to recognise Israel in return for a solution
based on the borders of 1967, with a willingness
to negotiate on the details of that solution,
namely: borders, Jerusalem and the right of return?
The third reason: the experience of the
Americans, the Zionists and other parties in the
region tempts them to conclude that further
pressure will drive us into a state of
desperation as happened previously; they tried
the policy of pressure and extortion with others
and it succeeded. This prompts them to say: "Let
us try the same thing with Hamas, for it may
submit like the others did." Add to that the fact
that some Arabs and Palestinians regrettably
advise them: "Surround Hamas, financially and
politically, and incite against them; do not open
up to them directly, maintain your conditions,
and do not hurry. Hamas will ultimately succumb!"
These reasons, and perhaps others, prompt them to
reject the truce offer. In our conversations with
Western delegations, we tell them: "Yes, the
positions of others are easier, and ours is more
difficult; yet our advantage is that, when we
make an offer or take a position, we strive to
ensure its applicability on the ground and its
potential to win the confidence of the
Palestinian people and the Arab and Islamic
public, and it is so only when it does not run
counter to the national constants, rights and
interests of the people." As to the positions of
others in the Palestinian arena, they are easy
but lack the approval of the majority of the
Palestinian people, its national forces and
intellectual elites. What is the practical value
of these positions, and the value of reaching
agreements and finding solutions with some
leaderships that were rejected by the majority of
the people? The Oslo Agreements were imposed in
the past, and they failed because they were
unfair and did not meet the aspirations of our
people, and thus remained alien to the Palestinian and Arab reality.
So we are aware that they will be forced finally
to deal with the vision of Hamas and the vision
of forces and leaders committed to national
constants. We tell them: "If you think that you
are able to achieve success in the region through
other schemes, try and you will reach a dead-end."
It might be easy for the major powers to incline
towards easy solutions with certain leaders and
rulers, without considering the importance of
these solutions being convincing and satisfactory
to the people. These powers overlook the fact
that reconciliation with the leaders and
governments alone is temporary and short-lived,
and does not create stability in the region no
matter the extent of pressure and oppression
exercised against the people. However, the
success of any enterprise is realised only when
the people are convinced and believe it to be
satisfactory and equitable, even if temporarily.
Some in the West are beginning to realise the
importance of this perspective and are,
consequently, developing their positions albeit
slowly in the direction of dealing with Hamas.
There are still obstacles in the effort to
translate this limited development into real and
serious steps. We, in turn, are not in a hurry
because what matters for us is not our role but
our commitment to our people's rights and interests.
Hamas' Model of Resistance
What contribution did Hamas make vis-à-vis jihad
and the struggle? What distinguishes its model of resistance?
It must first be emphasised that Hamas as a
movement of resistance against the Zionist
occupation is a natural and authentic part of the
experience of the Palestinian struggle, an
extension of it, and one of its circles that is
continuing from a hundred years ago, starting
with the first revolution and the first martyr
and all its icons and leaderships and their great
struggle despite adverse circumstances in their
time. These were people such as 'Izzeddine
al-Qassam, Haj Amin al-Husseini, Farhan
al-Sa'adi, Abdul Qader al-Husseini, among others,
up to the contemporary Palestinian revolution
with all its factions, forces, leaderships and
icons of struggle. The march of the Palestinian
struggle continues today, thanks to God, and will
continue until the goals of liberation, return
and deliverance from Zionist occupation are realised.
This means that Hamas, as a resistance movement,
is not separate from this struggle, nor does it
exist without roots in a desert, but is rather a
part of a whole. It is part of our people's
history of struggle and its jihadi march full
of sacrifices, challenges, creativity, patience,
endurance, and determination to continue the
march and overcome all obstacles, challenges and
adverse and unfavourable circumstances until the
ultimate goal is achieved, God willing.
This sense of belonging and extension has infused
Hamas as it has infused other forces of the
Palestinian resistance with the legacy of that
history and its originality, spirit and
distinctive identity, and made us grasp that long
and rich experience and benefit from its various
stages with all its successes and achievements,
and some failure as well. For us and our people,
these experiences are a rich and valuable
reservoir. The choice of the name of Martyr
'Izzeddine al-Qassam for our military wing and
its brigades is but an expression of this
affiliation and a manifestation of it.
Our asserting this fact here is necessary and
very important in order for each of us to know
our roots and factors of real power on the one
hand, and also to know our real size and specific
position in this long march. Just as belonging to
such history and course gives people or movements
the strength and self-confidence that are
necessary, especially in difficult moments, it
also gives them the necessary humility and
respect for the roles of others. We and the
others are part of this blessed course; we were
not the first and will not necessarily be the last.
We and the others build on the experience of our
forerunners and benefit from them, then we create
our own experiences with their positives and
negatives, and interact with our associates in
the march. All this will be a legacy for future
generations who will carry the flag and continue
the struggle until victory and liberation are
achieved, God willing. This is the goal which
everyone will have contributed to even if they
do not witness the final outcome.
We have striven to form our model of resistance,
which we established as a contribution to this
great struggle, and we were keen to offer
through it a notable addition to the march of
the Palestinian struggle. We have ingrained in it
a host of important and necessary concepts,
policies and regulations, and given it much
spirit, creativity, perseverance and determination.
Among the most prominent of these visions, concepts and policies are:
First: Resistance is our means to achieve the
strategic objective, namely, the liberation and
restoration of our rights and ending the Zionist
occupation of our land and our holy sites. That
is to say, resistance is a strategy of
liberation, and is the main axis in our work as a
resistance movement rather than being a mere
choice we have made. It is the backbone of our
project. Despite the importance of our programme
and the other work that is done in the course of
implementing the movement's programme such as
the political, popular, social, charitable, and
economic work, the true value and impact of these
activities in serving the objectives rest on
their position within the context of resistance
as a key programme, and within a working system
to which the resistance is the backbone. This is
because we are a resistance movement facing a
colonialist military occupation opposed to our
existence, and so it is natural that armed and
all-inclusive resistance be the basis and the
decisive factor in this confrontation.
Second: For us, resistance is a means, and not an
end, in the service of the aim and the
objectives; it is not resistance for the sake of
resistance. The elaboration of the resistance
concept to make it an end in itself entails many
errors in understanding, vision, and in the
practical attitude and behaviour, as well as a
flaw in decision-making and interest assessment.
Yes, resistance is very important, and a primary
axis to our project, but it is not the objective.
It is the means and the way for achieving this
goal, and a strategic tool for liberation.
Third: Hamas is not a military group, but an
all-embracing national liberation movement, with
resistance as its main axis, its strategic means
to liberation and the realisation of the
Palestinian national project. At the same time,
the movement works in all fields and areas, and
has its own aims and political vision. It is a
grass-roots movement conscious of the concerns of
its people at home and abroad, defending their
interests, and seeking to serve them as much as
possible in all aspects of daily life.
Fourth: We have limited our resistance to be in
opposition to the Israeli occupation alone. Our
resistance is against the enemy occupying our
land and encroaching on our people and holy
sites, and not against anyone else. We did not
use resistance even against those who supported
our enemies and provided them with all the means
of force and the deadly weapons which kill our
people. We also adopted the policy of confining
the resistance to Palestine and not conducting it
outside Palestine. This was done not out of
powerlessness, but on account of an accurate
estimation of interest, and a balancing of various considerations.
Fifth: We clearly adopt the policy of using
weapons and force only in the face of the
occupier and the external enemy attacking us;
this is legitimate resistance. This means not
using weapons and force either in domestic
affairs, or in addressing political and
intellectual disputes. Addressing disputes within
national ranks must be through dialogue,
consensus and arbitration by people, through democracy and the ballot box.
The tragic events in the Gaza Strip a few years
ago are not a departure from this policy, as this
is an entirely different case. There was a
Palestinian party which rejected the election
result and sought to overturn it, that is, to
overturn Palestinian legitimacy, and,
unfortunately, they collaborated with the Zionist
enemy and the Americans and used weapons against
us. It is our natural right to defend ourselves
when forced to do so, particularly considering
that we did this from the position of a
legitimate government formed after fair
democratic elections which were approved by the elected Legislative Council.
On the other hand, when we were out of power from
1994 until 2006, and although the Authority had
arrested thousands of our members and severely
tortured them, and pursued the resistance, its
weapons and people, and coordinated (and
continues to coordinate) security with the
Zionist enemy, we did not respond at that time by
using weapons or force against it, and we
restricted our resistance to the Zionist enemy
alone. We adopted a hands-off policy and
restricted our opposition to the Authority, and
the management of our dispute with it, to peaceful political and popular means.
Six: We have adopted a policy of not engaging in
turf battles in the region, contrary to what
others had done in the earlier stages. We never
used force and weapons against any Arab state or
party even if they harmed and besieged us, or
arrested and tortured our brethren, or stabbed
the resistance in the back, or incited against
us. The Arabs are our brothers and family and
they constitute our strategic depth; so we cannot
wrong them even if they did so to us. We have
committed ourselves to this policy over the past
years, and will remain committed to it, God
willing, because our battle is exclusively against the Zionist enemy.
Seven: In building the resistance, we took pains
to focus on building the resistance activist
religiously, educationally, psychologically, and
intellectually, ensuring a high degree of
organisational and behavioural discipline,
commitment to religious and ethical rules of
resistance, and developing the capacity for
endurance and steadfastness in extreme
circumstances, as well as building awareness and
clarity of vision in the fighters, sincerity of
purpose and intention, and the blending of the
religious and national dimensions to develop a
strong incentive in the course of jihad and the
resistance. The fighter struggles against the
occupying enemy in defence of his homeland and
holy sites, his people and nation, and his family and honour.
As for the movement's contribution to jihad and
the struggle, it must be noted as a key and
substantial point that Hamas succeeded, thanks to
God, in building and strengthening its resistance
even though it emerged at a difficult time, at a
point when many factors and objective conditions
for the success of revolutions and liberation
movements were vanishing. The most notable of
these is the end of the Cold War, the absence of
an international ally, and the emergence of an
international system based on the uni-polarity of
the United States of America, the foremost ally
of the Zionist entity, followed by the entry of
the world into the "war on terror", and the
pinning of the charge on Islam and resistance movements.
Added to that, although this factor often has
various outcomes and implications, is the fact
that the resistance in Palestine has been
undergoing a suffocating siege for some time, and
is deprived of a friendly neighbourhood that can
provide strategic and logistical depth, and of a
secure rear base allowing for freedom of movement
and manoeuvre. All this led to extreme difficulty
in the continuance of the armed struggle as it
was before, especially working from the outside
[of Palestine] to the inside, and the difficulty
of providing logistical support to the resistance at home and abroad.
In light of this great challenge, and in order to
continue the project of resistance and to
overcome obstacles and blockades, the movement
focused on a strategy of broadening the
participation of the Palestinian people at home,
and broadening their involvement in the
resistance and confrontation [with the enemy]:
starting from stone-throwing, introducing
creativity to the first and second intifada in
which everyone took part (thus reflecting a new
phase of the Palestinian struggle), and
introducing new and innovative forms of
resistance and open confrontation with the occupation.
Another strategy of movement-building at home was
also adopted in terms of recruitment, training,
arming and manoeuvre, while making every effort
to collect financial and technical support and
arms from abroad. When the blockade intensified
further, the idea of manufacturing weapons
inside, from available raw materials, emerged.
So we accepted the task with these enormous
challenges, siege and persecution, and faced it
bravely and resolutely through innovation,
creativity, diversification, self-reliance,
counting on God in all circumstances, and
continuously seeking friends, allies and
available support. We thought to ourselves that,
even if we remained by ourselves in the field,
and lost all support from others, we would
persist in our resistance and we would not give
it up or end it, and we will continue urging our
nation to support us and take part in this
honourable duty, quoting Allah Almighty's
statement to the Prophet (peace be upon him):
"You shall fight in God's cause; you are
responsible only for your own self; and inspire
the believers to do the same. It may be that God
will neutralise the power of those who reject
faith. God is much more powerful, and stronger in
the ability to deter" (Surah 4, Verse 84). We
used to quote this despite our conviction and
confidence in our nation's faithfulness and its
commitment not to abandon its responsibilities
towards the central issue of Palestine and of
confronting the Zionist enterprise. Our nation
clearly realises the essence of the Zionist
enterprise and the danger it poses to the whole region and the world.
Another addition by Hamas, in terms of jihad and
the struggle, is innovation in resistance and its
methods, tactics and tools, such as expanding
martyrdom operations and developing them to
become a lethal weapon against the enemy, and
striking deep at its security. An innovation was
the manufacture of weapons locally and
transforming this into an actual and real project
that could be relied on, even if temporarily,
given the difficulty of obtaining weapons from
outside. The most prominent example in this
regard is the manufacture of weapons which were
initially dealt with lightly on account of their
simplicity and their limited range and
effectiveness, but which have evolved to advanced
stages and have become a real nuisance to the
enemy, with growing impact on its security.
Another important example is the development of
the resistance's capacities in the face of
Israeli incursions, and the success in defending
Palestinian areas and towns following the
distinctive model of Gaza and the heroic attempt
in the Jenin camp, where all conventional methods
were used and were complemented by the use of
tunnels on a large scale to defend and challenge.
This went even so far as to withstand a real war
wherein the enemy was routed and its objectives
thwarted like in the Zionist enemy's war on the
Gaza Strip in 2008-2009, which actually was the
largest war waged by Israel on Palestinian land.
A further addition is the improvement of
resistance to being able to achieve and liberate
part of the land. The Palestinian resistance,
with its military wings and qualitative martyrdom
operations, and with the significant impact of
our people's second uprising, was able to force
the Zionist enemy to leave the Gaza Strip and
dismantle its settlements for the first time in
the history of the Zionist entity.
This clearly means that the Palestinian
revolution, through the development of capacity,
momentum and tools, as well as innovation and
diversification of methods and tactics, and
through determination and patience, has become a
real and reliable option whose ability to
withstand, defend and achieve, even if
step-by-step, can be trusted by the people
despite the enormous difference in and the
continuing imbalance of power compared to the enemy.
The resistance was also concerned with an
important aspect in its experience as a
resistance movement, namely, the alternation
between escalation and abatement in line with the
conditions and circumstances of our people,
serving the public interest, and sound political
judgement. The calm could be self-chosen or
undeclared as was necessary, and as part of the
resistance's decision-making, or it could be
announced publicly by agreement of the resistance
forces, in return for specific demands such as
discontinuation of Zionist aggression, lifting the siege, and so on.
We, along with other resistance factions,
exercised this with all consciousness and courage
and took responsibility for our people and their
interests. But, in all cases, we exercised this
on the basis of clinging to resistance and
developing it further as our strategic option for
liberation. In the battlefield and on the path of
resistance and liberation, the movement offered
as did others from our people a prominent
galaxy of martyrs from its finest leaders, icons
and cadres, led by Sheikh Ahmad Yassin, founder
of the movement; Abdul Aziz al-Rantisi; Jamal
Mansour; Jamal Salim; Ibrahim al-Makadmeh;
Isma'il Abu Shanab; Salah Darwazeh; Yousef
Sarakji; Saed Siam; Nizar Rayyan; and thousands of other noble martyrs.
The movement also offered illustrious figures in
the history of Palestinian military activity,
such as Imad Akel; Yahya Ayyash; Salah Shehadeh;
Mahmoud Abu Hannoud; and dozens of other martyrs
who cannot all be named here, though their names
will remain in the Palestinian memory and history of struggle.
Another aspect, and a very important addition, is
the introduction of the Islamic religious
dimension to the battle alongside the national
one, with all the significance of Islam in the
life of the people and the nation, and the
spirit, strength and vigour it endows the
strugglers with, as well as enhancing motivation
for resistance, the ability further to endure,
persevere and withstand, and Islam's ability to
mobilise the masses and stir their feelings in the face of the occupiers.
Furthermore, this essential dimension has
increased the rallying of the Arab and Islamic
nation's masses and their support for the
Palestinian people and their resistance,
especially during major events such as the war
and blockade on Gaza, and all matters relating to
Jerusalem and Al-Aqsa Mosque. Islamic sentiments
are among the most important links between the
masses of the nation and their elites and
Palestine. Thus, the forceful entry of Hamas
with its clear Islamic identity onto the
battlefield was a decisive factor in raising the
broad Arab and Islamic momentum, and invoking it
for the cause and the Palestinian resistance.
How do you see the issue of laxity in shedding blood?
There are strict established conditions regarding
blood and the lives of people, stressed by the
Qur'an and the Sunnah [the Prophetic example].
The Prophet (peace be upon him) never stressed
anything like he stressed this issue. He
repeatedly emphasised it, particularly in his
Farewell Sermon, and so it became central in the
charter of the nation. There are also codes of
ethics and national customs that people subscribe
to so as to establish internal peace in their
societies, and everyone should abide by these rules and not violate them.
We in the movement are keen to do this carefully,
by instilling these constraints and legal,
ethical and national rules, sensitising the
members of the movement, educating them,
compelling them to abide by these rules in their
behaviour, and practising accountability for any infringements or violations.
Those who need emphasis on these issues are no
doubt those in the military domain and the
bearers of weapons, so that the weapons are used
only in their natural domain against the
occupying enemy. For those who carry weapons
might be tempted by their feeling of self-power
to use their weapons needlessly. The more intense
the environment of domestic tension in a society
becomes, the more likely will be indulgence and excess in the use of arms.
It should be noted here that the severity of the
security experience with the Palestinian
Authority in the 1990s, the poor performance of
its security apparatus, corruption, harassment of
people especially the resistance movements,
primarily Hamas, and the torture and insulting of
its leaders, all created feelings of indignation
and severe pain, and wounded souls that will
never heal as a result of that harsh experience.
This rendered the domestic environment in the
Palestinian community unsound and unhealthy,
tense and irascible, and increased narrow
partisanship and partiality to the self and the
faction at the expense of the overall national
interest. These are defects we must all work to
address; we must work together and take
responsibility to get rid of them, because that
would be in the interest of the country, the
cause and all of us, and because the prolonging
of such defects and phenomena is detrimental to
all, and harmful to the cause and the national interest.
The possession of arms, the sense of power, and
large forces often cast on their owners vanity
and self-admiration, lure them into laxity in
their use of weapons, and may cause them to make
mistakes and abuse the rights of others. By
nature, man exceeds proper bounds when he becomes
rich or strong, as God Almighty says: "But man
transgresses all bounds, in that he looks upon
himself as self-sufficient" (Surah 96, Verses
6-7). Preventing such transgression requires
discipline and control through religious, moral
and patriotic commitment, and through the
enactment of constraints, rules and penalties,
and by being held answerable for abuses and irregularities.
We in the movement exercise this approach with
its two parts: the religious, moral and patriotic
deterrent; and checks, balances, accountability
and penalty in the case of violation. These are
issues related to religion, national interest and
people's rights. We are also keen on the
integrity of intentions and purity of motives of
the fighters, so that jihad, effort and behaviour
are always purely for the sake of God, and for
the homeland and its interest, away from the
passion for revenge or personal motives. Despite
all this, mistakes still occur; this is part of human nature.
Abuses and mistakes occur in the experiences of
all nations and peoples, as with all armies of
the world, and as in the case of the ugliness we
see practised against the vulnerable and occupied
peoples in Iraq and Afghanistan. However, as an
Arab and Muslim nation, and by virtue of our
religion's principles, our morals and cultural
heritage, we need always to commit to the highest
standards of ethical and behavioural discipline,
and firmness towards errors and abuses, for our
morals are not to be practised only among
ourselves but are, rather, universal and human
and should be practised with everyone, regardless of their religion or race.
Even at the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace be
upon him) there were excesses and errors, but
dealing with them was firm and fast. The Holy
Qur'an addressed one of these cases in the verse:
"O you who believe! When you go abroad in the
cause of God, investigate carefully, and say not
to anyone who offers you a salutation: 'You are
not a believer!' while you covet the perishable
goods of this life. With Allah are profits and
spoils abundant. You too were once in the same
condition, till God conferred on you His favours.
Therefore carefully investigate. For God is well
aware of all that you do" (Surah 4, Verse 94).
The Prophet (peace be upon him) was firm in
addressing these violations, few as they were,
and the prophetic traditions in this regard are
well-known, as partiality towards principles,
values and morals is the basis of religion and the foundation of the nation.
From here, in compliance with Islamic rules and
ethics, following the example of the Holy Qur'an
and the Sunnah (because we consider commitment to
them a religious obligation and a source of
goodness and bliss) and in fulfilment of our
people's and nation's national interest, our
policy in the movement is based on the
non-endorsement of errors and violations, and in
not legitimising them no matter where they come
from. We, rather, consider them to be at variance
with the approach of the movement, its thinking
and commitment, and we penalise the offenders and abusers firmly.
Hamas and International Relations
Are you satisfied with your achievements in
international relations? What is the position of
these relations in the thinking, programmes and priorities of Hamas?
International relations in the political thinking
of Hamas has several dimensions.
The first dimension: conviction that the
Palestine battle, in one of its aspects, is the
battle of humanity against Israeli injustice and
oppression, and against the racist Zionist scheme
targeting the world and humanity as a whole and
threatening the interests of peoples and nations,
since its evil and dangers are not limited to
Palestine and the Palestinians and the Arabs and Muslims.
The second dimension: the necessity of promoting
our just cause and winning more friends who
support our legitimate right to resist occupation
and aggression. It has been shown that there is
still good in the human conscience, and that it
could be awakened and moved in our favour if we
present our case well, and strive to reveal the
truth of the Zionist entity. The case of breaking
the Gaza blockade, and the success in winning a
large number of sympathisers with this issue
through the movement of ships to Gaza is an
example of the importance of this dimension. We
recall and emphasise that the confrontation with
the Zionist entity through the people and
resistance, as was the case with the Gaza War,
south Lebanon and the flotilla, is what exposes
the ugly face of this entity, and not
negotiations and meetings with it as these polish
its image and cover up its reality and crimes.
The third dimension: just as Israel encircles and
haunts us on the international stage, we too must
follow it in all international forums, and not
leave the stage to it. Unfortunately, the
official Arab and Islamic side has fallen far
short of this objective, and its true role has
been absent. However, what mitigated this
deficiency are the efforts of the Palestinian,
Arab and Islamic communities who recently moved
more effectively on the international arena and
scored significant results and important
breakthroughs. They helped win friends and
supporters for the Palestinian cause and Arab and
Islamic issues, and worked so as to expose the
ugly and ruthless face of Israel, whose
aggressive and brutal behaviour has shocked human
conscience and sentiments because it runs counter
to the ethical values of Western peoples and the
peoples of the world. These communities have also
contributed, through their activities, to the
pursuit of Israel legally and judicially.
The fourth dimension: we are interested in
forging a network of relations, strong and
effective at all levels, international as well as
Arab and Islamic. We have created in our group a
special section for international relations
because we consider it a factor of strength,
opening up and winning international support for the cause and the movement.
The fifth dimension: the forging of international
relations starts here, from within the region,
for here is the plant, and the harvest is there
in the West, while hard work is required in both.
This means that the primary basis for achieving a
breakthrough and success in international
relations is strength on the ground, and being
ingrained in it, united around our people and our
nation, practising resistance and resoluteness.
[With such a foundation], the world will respect
us and realise that there will be no peace or
stability in the region unless they deal with us
and accord us the consideration we deserve,
respect our interests, rights and legitimate
demands, and retreat from their current policies
of bias towards Israel and disregard for the Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims.
We have scored successes in this field, thanks to
God. Yet the road is long and we have a long way
ahead of us. We are relatively satisfied with the
achievements, considering the scale of obstacles
facing us and being thrown in our path. It should
not be forgotten that the level of the relations
and the yield achieved does not depend on us
alone, but also on the other side. This is how
political and human relations take place.
If we are to measure the yield from the efforts
we exerted, compared to the degree of Zionist
penetration and influence in the world, the gap
will seem wide. Western policy which views
Israel as its natural extension and chooses to
support it without limit, the weakness of Arab
performance and diplomacy, and the incitement by
certain Palestinian and Arab parties against the
movement have, no doubt, impacted on the extent of success and achievement.
We currently have a host of official relations on
the international level, such as the relations
with Russia, some Latin American countries and
Asian and African nations. We also have other
official international relations (some are covert
in view of the conditions of the other party) and
indirect relations through former officials who
communicate with us with the knowledge of the
officials in their countries; this is the case
with the United States of America and others. All
of this is an important development, and it will
not be long, God willing, until this develops
into open and consistent official relations with the movement.
We are not talking here about international
relations from the viewpoint of eagerness,
desperation, urgency and a search for partisan
glory. Rather, we are forging these relations and
following up on them with poise and self-respect,
with the purpose of reaping gains for the
Palestinian cause rather than for narrow partisan ones.
Alignments and axes
In recent years, the Arab arena has witnessed a
number of different axes and alignments. Hamas
has been classified by some as being within the
axis of rejection. How do you view this situation
dominating the Arab political scene, where do you
see yourself with regard to it, and do you
believe it to be in the interests of the nation?
I will answer this from three angles.
First angle: There is a reprehensible gathering,
and another gathering which is praiseworthy. The
reprehensible gathering is an assembly, for
example, on the basis of race or narrow national
ideas in opposition to other people; it invokes
categorisation and internal alignment on the
basis of the country or the nation. But if people
rally to do good, to support the Palestinian
people, resist the Zionist enemy, challenge
normalisation, resist the efforts of enemies to
infiltrate the nation, confront American hegemony
and the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, and
stand in the way of attempts to rob the nation's
wealth, all this constitutes a praiseworthy
gathering, and cannot be equated with the other one.
Therefore, when we say that we are for
resistance, adherence to Palestinian rights, the
right of return, have a bias for Palestine,
Jerusalem and the nation's sacred places, and
that we reject the Zionist occupation and refuse
to succumb to the dictates of the enemy, then
this is something we are proud of and do not
hide. This is the duty of the nation. God
Almighty says: "Help one another in righteousness
and piety and do not cooperate in sin and
aggression." Hence, coming together for such
cooperation is desired, and we should not be
afraid of being accused of bias towards one of the axes in such a case.
Second angle: we do not consider our commitment
to resistance and refusal to submit to the
Quartet's and the enemy's conditions and the
American-Israeli vision of the settlement and
relinquishment of Palestinian rights to be
undermining of Palestinian or Arab parties.
Rather, [we consider it to be an undermining] of
the Zionist enemy. As for those whose agenda
intersects with the enemy's, or who succumb to
them and go along with them under pressure, and
participate in besieging us or inciting against
us, those are the ones who are placing themselves
against the mission of the resistance.
However, we do not antagonise anyone from our
people and our nation, and we have not formed a
Palestinian, Arab or Muslim axis against another
Palestinian Arab one. We continue to reach out to
all, and are keen to communicate with everyone
and establish relationships with everyone. If
there is a break or chill in relationships with
someone, it is this person or group who chooses
this break or chill and not us. Everyone is aware
of this fact, because we reach out to all Arabs
some of them respond positively, and others do not.
Third angle: if it was acceptable to disagree in
our politics and analysis of the political
situation when the accord was being put to the
test and when people were paying heavily for the
resistance, is it acceptable to disagree today
after the accord has been proven a failure with
an obstructive political horizon and very heavy
costs and consequences, much heavier than the costs of the resistance?
We call on all the nation's states and forces to
rally together with us in our natural environment
as a nation. When the nation undergoes
occupation, our natural environment and our
priority should be the resistance. When we
undergo aggression it is natural to unite in the
face of aggression; and when the nation enters a
stage of independence, then our natural
environment and priority would be reconstruction,
economic advancement and cultural renaissance in all its dimensions.
Today, the nation should respond to the current
challenges and place itself in its natural
environment. We hope that everyone would be in
this environment, particularly considering that
they have tried and failed and found out that
betting on the Americans and others is futile.
The Americans have been tried in Palestine, Iraq
and Afghanistan, and were tried before that by
the Shah of Iran, and the results were dismal. We
say to the Arab and Islamic regimes: "The
shortest way to maintain your regimes and even
your stay in power is by siding with your nation and the people's choices."
The official Arab leaderships allowed themselves
the opportunity to be engaged in many experiments
and attempts on the path of compromise and
negotiations. The most recent of these was the
Arab Peace Initiative, through which they sent a
clear and generous message that the Arab states
were willing to provide benefits in return for
steps taken by the other party. Eight years have
elapsed since this proposal was mooted, without
any respect being given either by the Zionist
enemy, the US administration, or the
international community except for a few complimentary phrases.
During our meetings with many Arab officials and
leaders, we continue to tell them: "After this
experience, and after reaching a dead-end, is it
not worthwhile to stop and look for alternative
options?" We used also to say to them that
withdrawing from the settlement plan and the Arab
Initiative did not mean entering into official
wars which are not possible today with
Israel. Another option is to support the
resistance, and thus the nation can rally behind
a realistic and pragmatic option which has proven
able to withstand and able to score some
achievements, an option that is bound
significantly to develop in terms of its weight
and influence in the Arab-Israeli conflict, especially if it finds support.
If official wars with the enemy are impossible
today because of the imbalance of power, it is
difficult for the nation as things currently
stand to engage on a programme of a regular
Arab war against Israel. So let the realistic and
practical option be resistance, which we have
tried and which has succeeded in driving the
occupiers out of southern Lebanon and Gaza, and
whose effects are being seen clearly in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Hence, we believe that calling on the nation and
its forces to line up in their natural
environment is not an abstract or emotional
theory but is, rather, based on a practical
option that has been successfully tried. The
nation is capable of using this option on the
official and popular levels, particularly since
the negotiation option has failed and in light of
the contempt displayed by the enemy leaders
towards us, as well as successive US
administrations' betrayal of the Arabs and the
Muslims even of their friends and associates.
Hamas and Jews
Is the resistance of Hamas directed against the
Zionists as Jews or as occupiers?
We do not fight the Zionists because they are
Jews; we fight them because they are occupiers.
The reason behind our war with the Zionist entity
and our resistance to it is the occupation,
rather than differences in religion. Resistance
and military confrontation with the Israelis was
caused by occupation, aggression and crimes
committed against the Palestinian people, and not
because of the differences in religion and belief.
We are well aware that Israel invokes religion to
advance on the battlefield. They also employ
historical grudges, distorted texts, legends and
myths, and religious sentiments in the battle
against the Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims. Even
the leaders of secular Zionism had used religion
since the beginning of the Zionist movement and
exploited it politically; and the Zionist entity
was originally based on religion and racism.
Despite all this, our religious differences with
them is not what created a situation of war and
resistance against them; we fight them because they are occupiers.
For us, religion is a cornerstone to our lives,
belonging and identity, our culture and our daily
actions; it is the energy that promotes patience
and steadfastness, and gives rise to more
sacrifice and generosity. This is a tremendous
energy in the face of injustice, aggression and
the powers seeking to harm our people and our
nation. But we do not make of religion a force
for engendering hatred, nor a cause or a pretext
for harming and assaulting others, or grabbing
what is not ours, or encroaching on the rights of others.
Hamas and Christians
What is the Hamas view of Christians and their role in the Palestinian cause?
Islam dealt with the Christians in a special
manner compared to other religions, as in the
[Qur'anic] verse: "You will surely find that, of
all people, the most hostile to those who believe
are the Jews and those who are polytheists; and
you will certainly find that, of all people, the
nearest in friendship to those who believe are
those who say: 'We are Christians'." The
historical relations between Christians and
Muslims have had a special status since the
conquest of Palestine, when the second caliph,
Umar ibn al-Khattab, received the keys to the
city of Jerusalem. A special relationship between
Muslims and Christians was formed thereafter.
What is more, Palestine enjoys an exceptional
status, being the land of prophets and
messengers, the birthplace of Jesus (peace be
upon him), and the place of Muhammad's (peace be
upon him) night journey. Palestine is one of the
foremost examples of coexistence and tolerance
among all faiths. This is a legacy carried by the
Palestinians whether Muslims or Christians
and has resulted in the evolution of the historical relations we see.
In the past decades, since the 1930s when the
late Haj Amin al-Husseini sponsored Christian and
Muslim conferences, Muslims and Christians have
had mutual concerns, and have cooperated to face
mutual challenges. Palestinian Muslims and
Christians were in the same boat against the
Zionist occupation. This was reflected in the
role of our Christian brothers in the
contemporary Palestinian Revolution when all factions united as one people.
Since the formation of Hamas, the relationship
with the Christian brothers has been normal and
good, and there were no problems between us and
them. This despite the fact that some Palestinian
forces tried, unfortunately, to scare Christians
with the idea of the new movement, reminding them
that it is an Islamic movement in order that they
might promote the notion of an allegedly
inevitable contradiction between Hamas and
Christians. However, these attempts at
intimidation failed, and Christians found the
movement to be close to them, dealing with
everyone with tolerance, openness and respect.
During the second Palestinian intifada, the
movement took into consideration the
specificities of Christian festivals, and was
careful that strike days did not coincide with
Christian festivals and events, just as it was
also keen to protect Christian property. Not only
this, but Hamas was also keen on an active
Christian role in Palestinian political life. The
movement's leaders, at home and abroad, held
several meetings with Christian national religious figures.
For these reasons, Hamas won broad support among
Christians before and after the 2006 legislative
elections. There were many Christians who voted
for Hamas, and we supported them in the West Bank
and Gaza, too. For example, Dr Husam al-Tawil a
Christian won [a seat] in Gaza owing to votes
from Hamas and its supporters. The number of
Muslims who voted for him was several times the
number of Christian votes given that the number
of Christians in the Gaza Strip is small.
I recall here, because of its symbolic
significance, an incident that happened in an
Arab airport. A certain person approached me,
introduced himself as a Palestinian, said that he
was a Christian from Beit Jala, and that he had
voted for Hamas and still supported it. He was
not obliged to say this, and nobody pushed him to
say it; he did it on his own, and expressed his
feelings. This is a model of the good
relationship between the movement and the
Christian brothers from among our people.
We are dealing with the Christians as a
fundamental component of the people and homeland,
and an active part in the struggle against the
occupation, without the consideration that this
is a Muslim and that a Christian. We are partners
in the country, and everyone has rights and
duties. When we recall religious figures
prominent in the struggle of the people of
Palestine, we recall, among Muslims, Sheikh Raed
Salah, Sheikh Ikrima Sabri, and [among
Christians] Bishop Atallah Hanna, Bishop Capucci,
and so on. We all share in defending Jerusalem and the cause.
Hamas may have surprised some liberals and
secularists in the Palestinian arena who thought,
or even promoted the idea, that, by virtue of its
Islamic identity, it will isolate itself and that
a tenuous relationship may develop between us and
Christian Palestinians. They were surprised when
their expectations did not materialise. This is
because religion is not about isolation and
detachment; on the contrary, faith motivates a
person to be tolerant, to be respectful of
others, and to recognise their rights.
Hamas and women
Islamic movements are commonly accused of
contempt towards women and marginalisation of
their role in political and social life. How do
you view these charges in light of your experience in Hamas?
Unfortunately, there is a gap between the true
concepts of Islam regarding woman, and their more
recent practical application. There is an
erroneous application and behaviour that results
from backwardness and does not come from the texts and spirit of the Shari'ah.
Even at the present time, however, and despite
the good level of progress in the Arab and
Islamic countries, there are still errors in the
application [of the Shari'ah] arising from many
customs, traditions and concepts which emanate
from certain situations and specific
environments, and do not arise from the provisions of Islam itself.
Women in the texts of the Qur'an and hadith
(prophetic traditions) are charged with duties
just as men are, and when the Qur'an speaks about
Shari'ah and its provisions, it mentions men and
women together because everyone is charged with
and has individual responsibilities. This is
evident in God Almighty's saying: "The Believers,
men and women, are protectors one of another:
they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is
evil," and "Never will I suffer to be lost the
work of any of you, be you male or female. You
are members, one of another." And, in the
Prophet's words: "Women are the twin halves of
men." There are also other such Qur'anic verses and hadith in this vein.
Women in the Islamic concept of thought,
jurisprudence, mandate and role are indeed
one half of society, and woman has been given her
prestige and respect. However, there is a huge
difference between respect and appreciation for
woman and her rightful role [on the one hand],
and abusing her and presenting her as a cheap
commodity as is done in the Western civilisation
[on the other]. There is a difference between
preserving woman's chastity and modesty and
safeguarding her rights while according her a
suitable role, and dealing with her as a
commodity of lust and pleasure. These ethical
regulations are not just Islamic; they are innate and human.
We in Hamas are keen, as regards women, to invoke
Islamic concepts and their unadulterated
application which are not marred by the ages of
backwardness or the weight of social norms and
traditions that stem from the environment rather
than the religious text, especially since the
environment of Palestine is not a closed one but
a historically civilised one enjoying plurality
and openness to all religions, civilisations and cultures.
With this pure and original conception, and as a
part and an extension of the Palestinian
experience and its legacy, Hamas assigned a
distinctive role for women in its operations. The
role of women was highlighted during the
intifada, in the resistance and all forms of
struggle efforts, not only as mother, wife and
sister to the strugglers, but also as one
herself, carrying out commando and martyrdom
operations, supporting her brothers and martyrs,
and providing logistical assistance. There are
also sisters who drove fighters to the operation
site, as happened in the Sbarro operation and
others. In the Zionist jails, there are tens of
captive sisters enduring the suffering in prison
and paying the toll of jihad side-by-side with their brothers.
The role of women is significant in the
Palestinian arena and in the movement, whether at
work, jihad and struggle, in the field of social
charity and educational work, or political and
syndicalist work. The Palestinian woman is
educated and cultured, and her activity in
schools and universities is no less than that of a man.
Proceeding from our Islamic terms of reference,
Arab cultural identity and the distinctive
Palestinian environment, women in Hamas occupy an
advanced position. In political action, and
before the Legislative Council was created, women
had significant activities in the Palestinian
student movement and in various unions; and when
Hamas took part in the legislative elections,
women enjoyed a strong presence and a large share
on our lists, as well as in the government formed by Hamas.
It is true that some Islamic movements and groups
are criticised for neglecting the role of women,
but we find, on the other hand, cases of
depravity and misdemeanour impinging on ethical
concerns with some secular parties and forces.
Hamas was keen to develop a moderate vision which
would grant woman her authentic role, without
breaking from Islamic principles, values and
ethics, and at the same time being free from
isolation, seclusion and marginalisation. I
believe we have succeeded in that, thanks to God.
Women also have an important role on the
organisational level in Hamas, which seeks better
to develop their role and participation within
the organisational structure of the movement.
Future of the Zionist project
Through your reading of the course of the Zionist
project and its current reality, how do you see
the future of this project? Is it moving towards
realising "Greater Israel", or is it in decline and regression?
Factual data reinforce the conviction that the
Zionist project has no future in the region.
There is a real decline in this enterprise, for
which expansion was an important characteristic,
and it is no longer able to continue in this way.
The construction of the wall (while recognising
its negative repercussions on the Palestinian
people), and the withdrawal from southern Lebanon
and the Gaza Strip are but practical examples of this decline and regression.
Israel which used to wage war on its neighbours
and win easily was able to take the fight to
its enemy, and used to strike everywhere. Now,
its heartland is a field of battle for the
Palestinian resistance. This is a repetitive
phenomenon. The so-called "Israeli home front" is
now threatened in every war or confrontation and
is paying the price for its leaders' adventures.
Moreover, the ruling class in Israel today and
on the level of many military, political and
security leaders no longer has the capacity of
the first generation who built this entity, nor
the will to fight that they had had, not to
mention rampant corruption in the ruling class, a
growing number of suicides, the evasion of
military service, and the declining performance of its security institutions.
Israel has not won a real war since 1967, except
for the invasion of Beirut in 1982. This is an
important indicator of the decline of the Zionist
project's ability, and the fact that it has no
future. In my estimation, the "Greater Israel"
project has come to an end, simply because the
Zionist enemy is no longer able to accomplish it,
and because Israel continues on the same path as
did apartheid South Africa. This is a growing
conviction for many neutral politicians and observers.
After more than 60 years since the establishment
of this entity, and when the question in the
Israeli street is not only about the security of
Israel, but also about its future and destiny,
this is an important and serious development.
When the Israeli community questions the basis of
its existence and future, and the feasibility of
its enterprise, then the countdown must have begun, God willing.
Saying this is not enough, however; what is
required is building on it. We are not calling
for an underestimation of the Zionist entity's
strength and capabilities. It is the sensible who
do not underestimate their enemy, and the Zionist
entity still has many elements of power.
Nevertheless, this realistic reading and vision,
based on many facts and indicators, should prompt
us not to succumb to Israeli threats or
conditions for political settlement, and not to
deal with the Zionist project as an inevitable
destiny. The real option and alternative to the
policy of submission and the state of
helplessness, waiting and getting bogged down in
negotiations, is resistance. The Palestinian
people are able, God willing, to continue the
resistance, but they need the backing and participation of the nation.
There is debate among many international groups
as to whether Israel still constitutes a
strategic asset for Western interests in the
region. Do you think there is a chance that some
international parties might reconsider the
usefulness of continued unlimited support to the Zionist entity?
One of Israel's strong points was its ability to
promote itself in the West as part of Western
civilisation and as an extension of it, carrying
its values, way of life and political system of
democratic governance. It also used to present
itself as a victim of Nazism in order to draw
Western sympathy. Today, Israel is no longer so
especially after the "Goldstone Report", its
crimes in the war on Gaza and in Lebanon before
that, and its crime against the Freedom Flotilla,
as its aggressions have affected hundreds of
nationals from dozens of countries, including
Western ones. Today, Israel is living in a state
of exposure, and a situation where the moral
rationale it earlier used to claim and promote is
being shaken. Israel is falling morally, and its
true ugly face is being exposed. This is a very important development.
The Western embrace of Israel has suffered a big
shock, especially among the peoples of the West
and the elites, due to its heinous crimes and due
to the Palestinian steadfastness which exposed it
for what it is, and highlighted the just
Palestinian cause and its human face.
Negotiations will result in Israel polishing its
image for public relations purposes. When Israel
loses its international incubator, it inflicts
upon itself a heavy loss, because it is not an
authentic part of the region, but rather survives
on the support of the international community,
especially the West. The Western mind, on the
other hand, glorifies force, adores it and bases
its policies upon it. Today, the Zionist entity
no longer appears to the West as being capable of
imposing what it wants in the region, and this
means that Western confidence in the ability of
this entity forcibly to impose its desires in the
region is eroding. This has undoubtedly changed
the image of Israel and its functional role in
the West from being a profitable investment to
becoming an onerous burden; this will gradually
impact on Western interaction with the Zionist project in the future.
All these factors demonstrate the premature
ageing of this enterprise. Usually, when
senescence appears early in any physical
structure, it indicates a flaw in formation or
immunity, as well as a surrounding rejecting
environment which brought about this ageing.
Without the slightest doubt, Palestinian
steadfastness and resistance, and the
steadfastness and support of the nation, as well
as the continuing confrontations with the
[Zionist] project and nonconformity with its
will, is what exposed this enterprise and its
flaws. Hence, the project aged early and is no
longer able to carry out the same adventures and
score the same successes as in the past. In
short, the Zionist project, like all other
enterprises of occupation, settler-colonialism
and aggression throughout history, has no
legitimacy because it is alien to our region and
lacks the elements of survival. It will, thus,
end up like all other similar projects.
Future of the Region
What is your vision of the region's future in the next five years?
The region today is in the throes of labour, and
the next five years are likely to witness a
continuation and expansion of this labour. We
hope it will ultimately result in positive
changes and a promising fruit, God willing, even
if difficult. We have confidence and hope that
the future will be to the benefit of the nation
and the Palestinian resistance and cause. No
doubt the nation is today going through a stage
of advancement, but it is unavoidably a
difficult one that might be accompanied by a lot
of pain, and so it requires more patience and
determination, and the doubling of efforts on the
one hand, and the escalation of resistance and
confrontation with the occupying enemy on the other.
Some people believe that this reading of yours is
optimistic and unfounded. On what basis do you construct your expectations?
Our reading is not fanciful, and is certainly not
defeatist. Our reading is realistic and based on
numerous facts, proofs and indicators. One of
these is that the resistance endeavour in the
region has evolved significantly, and has proven
its presence and effectiveness. Not only this,
but the resistance endeavour has endured and
scored important successes, even though it is
working under unfavourable conditions and is
facing major challenges, the most important of
which is the regional and international imbalance
of power, and the state of weakness and division
in the Arab and Islamic countries.
Those who view the reality of the resistance in
Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan will
realise that resistance has become the only real
option on which the peoples of the region can
depend to confront the forces of hegemony and for
resisting occupation, defending the land and
interests and safeguarding their independence,
and to repel aggression from any nation in the
world, even if it is as powerful and mighty as the United States of America.
Resistance in the region has not only held out
and succeeded in accomplishing strides in
liberation as in Gaza and south Lebanon and
held out in the face of large wars, but it also
entangled the invading forces who seek directly
to control the region in such huge trouble and
dilemmas that they are now forced to reconsider
their calculations. The people and the resistance
of the region have thank God forced these
major powers and nations to accord some
consideration to this nation, after being tempted
by the Arab governments' weak policies into more
greed and underestimation and disregard for us
when formulating their foreign policy and important decisions for the region.
The Zionist war on Gaza and the Freedom Flotilla
incident have exposed something important in the
course of the conflict, which is that the nation
still sees Palestine as its first cause, and that
the nation's people, however frustrated, are
still able to recover and mobilise significantly
in record time, facing real issues and serious
confrontations with the enemy. This inherent
vitality in the nation, reflected in some of the
junctures and hot spots, was one of the factors
and causes according to our information which
prompted Western countries to put pressure on
Israel to accelerate the cessation of the recent
war in Gaza, fearing the repercussions of
sweeping Arab and Islamic anger and its effects
vis-à-vis the current political reality in the
region and Western interests therein.
There have also been important positive
transformations in recent years in the positions
of a number of Arab and Islamic countries which,
together with the resistance forces, created a
situation of increasing power and independence,
bias for the resistance endeavour and the
interests of the nation, and rejection of
external conditions and pressures. There are also
rejectionist countries allied to the resistance,
and they have made remarkable progress in terms
of their role in the region, along with other
Arab states which developed their position and
honestly and courageously expressed their support
for the Palestinian resistance, the choice of the
Palestinian people and the democratic choice
demonstrated by the 2006 elections.
We recently saw the emergence of the Turkish
regional role, on a positive course towards the
independence of political decision-making and
economic advancement, promotion of the democratic
experience, openness to the Arab and Islamic
nation, remarkable and effective engagement on
the question of Palestine and other regional
issues, and the adoption of strong and courageous
positions, all of which indicate a transformation
in the region and across the nation,
strengthening the trend towards advancement and change for the better.
There is no doubt that there is a clear
recognition by all, even those who stubbornly
deny it, that the strategy of settlement and
negotiations has failed miserably and has reached
an impasse, after nearly 20 years of its adoption
as the sole option for the overall Arab official
policy based on so-called "moderation". [There is
also a recognition] that all successive US
administrations, on which the Arab states counted
for help in making this strategy successful, did
nothing for them but embarrassed and let them
down, giving them mere talk and promises, and
changing time-lines, while still giving the
Zionist entity political and practical support.
Although the advocates of this strategy are
unwilling formally to admit failure, lest a
vacuum should form resulting in the call for an
alternative, the work in this region must
definitely drive everyone to seek an alternate
more serious and self-respecting strategy which
will better be able to face the reality posed by
Israel everyday on the ground in defiance of
everyone moderates and non-moderates. The
policy of waiting, marking time, sticking to the
current policy, testing failed options and
reproducing them repeatedly is no longer feasible or possible.
In addition, the general Arab official policy
seems, unfortunately, unable to keep pace with
the changes in the region, the rise of new
players and the growing roles of other players,
and the resulting challenges facing the Arabs and
their security, interests and regional roles
especially those of the major countries.
Although America continues to weigh influentially
on several countries in the region, there is
hidden resentment starting to grow towards it in
these countries. This includes even those who are
friends with the United States, simply because it
lets them down and does not help with issues
concerning the Arab nation particularly with
respect to the Arab-Israeli conflict and
indulges the Zionist entity and other regional
countries at their expense, something which
increases their embarrassment in front of their
people, and weakens their ability to continue
marketing and defending the political moderation
strategy based on settlement and negotiations.
One of the proofs that strengthen our confidence
that the future of the region is in our favour is
the weakening position of the Zionist entity. It
is true that it is still ahead militarily, and
that the balance of power still works for it, but
it is currently encountering many failures. Yes,
it is capable of waging war, but it has long been unable to achieve victory.
All the facts mentioned above, and what they
sometimes reflect of bitterness and sometimes of
promising signs, with a growing awareness among
the peoples of the region especially the Arab
people, with the open media space and the
inability to hide the facts, with a growing
return of the nation's peoples to their authentic
Arab-Islamic identity and cultural roots, and
their increasing concern about the current
situation of the Arab nation and its destiny and
future, national security and regional and
international roles and its major issues, at the
forefront of which is the Arab-Zionist conflict
All this, in my opinion, stimulates the nation
into real and significant change that has become
inevitable. It is this which makes me (and those
who think similarly to me) confident that the
coming years will be, God willing, for the
benefit of our nation, notwithstanding the
current bitterness, pain and concerns. This view
is reinforced by the fact that this region, as
evidenced by the facts of history, had always
eventually succeeded in regaining the initiative
and defeating the forces of aggression.
We are a great nation, proud of ourselves, our
religion, our land, our history, our culture and
identity, with Palestine and Jerusalem as our
beating heart and an indicator of our life and
survival. Therefore, we will not tolerate the
Zionist entity for long and we will defeat it
just as we defeated the Crusades and the Mongol
advance in the past. "For it is by turns that We
apportion unto people such days (of fortune and
misfortune)" (Surah 3, Verse 140).
<http://amec.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=181%3Ahamas-meshal-lays-out-new-policy-direction&catid=62%3Apalestine-israel&Itemid=75>http://amec.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=181%3Ahamas-meshal-lays-out-new-policy-direction&catid=62%3Apalestine-israel&Itemid=75
original source. THANK YOU SHADI!
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