[News] Maoists being forced into violence: Arundhati Roy

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Maoists being forced into violence: Arundhati Roy

Sagarika Ghose
Apr 14, 2010
CNN-IBN
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maoists-being-forced-for-violence-arundhati/113285-37-64.html?from=trending

Hello and welcome to CNN-IBN special in the 
aftermath of killing of 76 CRPF jawans in 
Dantewada by Maoists, there has been a nationwide 
debate which has been polarized one.

One argument is to about to use maximum force to 
crush the Maoists and the other argument is about 
to initiate outreach program, democracy and 
rehabilitation. Joining us here is the author and 
the activist Arundhati Roy, who has written 
several writings on Maoists and her open sympathy 
and empathy for them, has created a great degree 
of debate and controversy. Thanks very much indeed for joining us.

Sagarika Ghose: You wrote your article ‘Walking 
with the comrades’ in The Outlook before 
Dantewada happened. In the aftermath of the 
Dantewada, do you still stand by the tone of 
sympathy that you had with the Maoists cause in that essay?

Arundhati Roy: Well, this is a odd way to frame 
before and after Dantewada happened because 
actually you know this cycle of violence has been 
building on and on. This is not the first time 
that a large number of security personnel have 
been killed by the Maoists. I have been written 
about it and the other attacks that took place 
between the years 2005-2007. The way I look at is 
often you know people make it sound that oh on 
this side of people, who are celebrating the 
killing of CRPF jawans and that side of the 
people who are asking for the Maoists to be wiped 
out. This is not the case. I think that you got 
to look at the every depth as a terrible tragedy. 
In a system, in a war that’s been pushed on the 
people and that unfortunately is becoming a war 
of the rich against the poor. In which rich put 
forward the poorest of the poor to fight the 
poor. CRPF are terrible victims but they are not 
just victims of the Maoists. They are victims of 
a system of structural violence that is taking 
place, that sort to be drowned in this empty 
condemnation industry that goes on which is 
entirely meaningless because most of the time 
people who condemn them have really no sympathy 
for them. They are just using them as pawns.

Sagarika Ghose: Who then will break the cycle of 
violence? The state argues that the reason why 
the state has to cleanse the area or sanitize the 
area is because whenever it initiates development 
works on bridges or starts school; those are 
blown up by the Maoists. Is it that the cycle of 
violence according to you can only be broken by 
the states and if the state pulls back is that what you believe?

Arundhati Roy: There is some simple sort of 
litmus test for that, is it the case that there 
are hospitals, schools, low malnutrition and lot 
of development in poor areas where there aren’t 
any Maoists? That’s not the case. The fact is 
even if you look at the studies that have been 
done by doctors in a place like Bilashpur. What 
Vinayak Sen describes as nutritional aids is 
happening. When you go into the schools, you see 
that they are used as barracks. They are built as 
barracks so as to say that Maoists blow up 
schools and they are against development is a bit ridiculous.

Sagarika Ghose: But you condemn state violence 
and the charge against you is that you don’t 
condemn Naxals violence and also you don’t 
condemn Maoists violence. In fact you rationalise 
it and even romaticising violence? That is a 
charge made against you and I fact if I can read 
from your essay where you have written that, “I 
feel I want to say something about the futility 
of violence but what should I suggest they do? Go 
to court, a rally, and a hunger strike that 
sounds ridiculous; which party they should vote 
for, which democratic institution they should 
approach? You seem to be saying that non-violence is futile?

Arundhati Roy: This is a strange charge on 
someone who is writing about non-violence and 
non-violence movement fro 10 years now. But what 
I saw when I went into the forests was this - 
that non-violence resistance though it has 
actually not worked; not in the ‘Narmada Bachao 
Andolan’ and not even in many other non-violence 
movements and not even in the militant movements. 
It has worked in some parts of the movement. But 
inside the forests it’s a different story because 
non-violence and in particularly, Gandhian 
non-violence in some ways needs an audience. It’s 
a theatre that needs an audience. But inside the 
forests there is no audience when

a thousand police come and surround the forest 
village in the middle of the night, what are they 
to do? How are the hungry to go on a hunger 
strike? How are the people with no money to 
boycott taxes or foreign goods or do consumer 
boycotts? They have nothing. I do see the 
violence inside that forest as a ‘counter 
violence’. As a ‘violence of resistance’ and I do 
feel terrible about the fact that there is this 
increasing cycle of violence that the more 
weapons the government arms the police with those 
weapons end up with the Maoist PLGA. It’s a 
terrible thing to do to any society. I don’t 
think that there is any romance in it. However 
I’m not against romance. I do feel it’s 
incredible that these poor people are standing up 
against this mighty state that is sending 
thousands and thousands of Para-military. I mean, 
what they are doing in those forests against 
those people with Ak-47 and grenades.

Sagarika Ghose: But Maoists have AK-47 too? They have pressure bombs too?

Arundhati Roy: They snatched it from cops.

Sagarika Ghose: Should people like you for not 
been raising their voices against the cycle of 
violence or should you actually been trying to 
find out rationalization for it because your been 
called as ‘apologists for Maoists’. BJP has 
called you the “sophisticated face of naxalism’. 
If you don’t raise your voice against their 
violence and simply say it as a morally 
acceptable, as a morally legitimate counter to 
the state then are you not actually failing as member of a civil society?

Arundhati Roy: No, I’m not. Because I think it 
suits the status-quo-raita to have everybody 
saying
this is terrible and all. So just let’s 
just keep on without taking it into account the 
terrible structural violence that actually is 
creating a ‘genocidal situation’ in those tribal 
areas. If you look at the levels of malnutrition, 
if you look at the levels of absolute desperation 
there; any responsible person has to say that the 
violence will stop when you stop pushing those 
people. When you have a whole community of 
tribal; which by the way, is a population larger 
than the population of the most countries, is 
actually on the brink of survival, fighting for 
its own inhalation. I can’t equate their 
reactions, their resistance to the violence of 
the state. I think it’s immoral to equate the two.

Sagarika Ghose: Let’s bring you to the other 
point in your essay, where you are particularly 
harsh on Gandhi. You said party founder Charu 
Majumder has kept the dream of revolution real 
and present in India. Imagine a society without 
that dream, for that alone we can’t judge him too 
harshly. Especially not while we swaddle 
ourselves with Gandhi’s pious humbug about the 
superiority of non-violent way and its notion of 
trusteeship. You also say do you know what to do 
if we come under fire
.Do you think Gandhi is a figure to be mocked?

Arundhati Roy: I think there are something about 
Gandhi, which do deserved to be mocked and I 
think there are something about him which deserve 
a great deal of respect. Particularly, his 
(Gandhi’s) ideas of consumption, minimalist and 
sustainable living. However, let me read what he 
said in his thing of trusteeship. This is a quote 
of his notion of trusteeship, “the rich man will 
be left in possession of his wealth of which he 
will use what he reasonably requires for his 
personal needs and will act as a trustee for the 
remainder to be used for the good of the 
society”. I think that is one statement which can 
be mocked. I have no problem mocking it.

Sagarika Ghose: In a lecture in US in March at 
the Left forum you said ‘India is a fake 
democracy’ that tightens your justification or 
your quasi-justification of violence to some 
extent. Do you feel that because Indian democracy 
is ‘fake’ there is no hope that Indian democracy can holds out to the Maoists?

Arundhati Roy: No, certainly I feel that India is 
a oligarchy where it does work as a democracy for 
the middle classes and the upper classes.

Sagarika Ghose: But it’s a fake democracy?

Arundhati Roy: Yeah, because it doesn’t work for 
the mass of the people it’s a fake democracy. So 
you have institution which has been hollowed out, 
you have institution to which poor have no access 
and when you look at the institution of the 
democracy, look at the elections, at the court, 
at the media and you look at the judiciary. You 
have a very dangerous system building. If you 
increasingly excluding a vast section of the 
poorer people in this country and that’s why I 
say it fake. It works for some and it doesn’t 
work for others depending on where you want to 
place your feet; your politics is defined. If you 
stand in Greater Kailash; sure it’s a great and 
vibrant democracy but if you stand in Dantewada- 
it is no democracy at all. You have a Chief 
Minister who basically said that those who don’t 
come out of the forests and live in Salwa Judum 
camps are terrorists. So looking after your 
chickens and tending to your fields is a terrorist act? Is that democracy?

Sagarika Ghose: If you have to come up with a 
solution to this. What would your solution be? 
What would be your way to break the deadlock?

Arundhati Roy: Well there are two things. First 
on a philosophical level I would say that I don’t 
believe that the imagination that has brought to 
the planet to this crisis is going to come up 
with an alternative. So the least we can do is to 
stop and enlighten those who we think of as 
keepers of our past but could be people who have the wisdom for the future.

But on “Operation Green hunt”, I would like to 
say three things, I think government should come 
clean on all these MoUs, infrastructures 
projects; declare them and tell us what they are 
and freeze them for now. Insist that all the 
villagers that have been pushed out, we are 
talking of hundreds and thousands of people be 
rehabilitated. Guns need to be pulled back.

Sagarika Ghose: Every country uses mineral 
resources to grow. Growth is something our 
country needs. The present dispensation in 
Maoists, earlier they used to deal with Poscho; 
the rate of compensation was 30 Lakh per year 
that they used to pay to the Maoists. Now its no 
deals all bets are off. Are you advocating that 
all projects from all those areas should wind up and go?

Arundhati Roy: You see what’s happening now with 
that the privatization of the mining industry 
that there is a very sort of false understanding 
that mining is going to push up growth. It will 
push it up in strange way which has nothing to do 
with the real development. But if you look at the 
royalties that the government gets e.g for iron 
ores Rs 27 for 5,000 tonnes profit for the 
private company. We are paying without ecology of 
other people’s economy. So it’s a myth of this thing called growth.

Sagarika Ghose: Are you willing to mediate 
between the Maoists and the government because 
they have put your name as well as Kabir Suman to 
mediate. But you declined. What are you afraid 
of? Why don’t you go ahead and mediate?

Arundhati Roy: I’m afraid of myself. These are 
not my skills. I don’t trust myself. If you are a 
basket ballplayer you can’t be a swimmer. So I 
think there are people who would do a good job 
but I don’t think I’m one of them. But I think 
one question we have to ask is whom do we mean 
when we say Maoist? Who does the ‘Operation Green 
Hunt’ want to target? Because for this there has 
been a discrete separation been made that here 
are the Maoists and here are the tribal. On the 
other hand some people say Maoists represent the 
tribal. Neither of which is true. The fact is 
that the about 99 per cent Maoists are tribal. 
But all tribal are not Maoists, still numbers 
turn into tens and thousands of people who would 
officially call themselves Maoists. Among them 
90,000 women belong to women organisation. 10,000 
belong to the cultural organisation. So are they all going to be wiped out?

Sagarika Ghose: What is your message to Home 
Minister P Chidambaram? What kind of message 
would you like to give him? Do you think he is fighting this war for ego?

b>Arundhati Roy: I think he is fighting for hue 
brisk and fighting with an imagination that is 
chained to the corporate companies that he wants 
served to Enron to Vedanta, to all the companies 
that he has represented. I’m not necessarily 
accusing him of being corrupt but I’m accusing 
him of having an imagination that is called nice 
by a corporation and that is driving this country 
into a very serious situation and it’s going to effect all of us.

Sagarika Ghose: Are you worried about the case 
that has been filed against you? There has been a 
complaint filed against you under Chhaatisgarh 
Special Powers Act and police are investigating 
on that for lending your support to the Maoists 
after your article. Are you worried about the state prosecution?

Arundhati Roy: Obviously I would be a goon not to 
be worried. But I won’t be the first one they 
have gone after. I think what they are trying to 
do is to sell out a warning to the people because 
I feel they want to intensify this war. I think 
we are going to see drone attacks on the poorest 
people of this country. Moreover they want to 
cordon off the theater of war and trying to warn 
people who might have a different view from that 
of the government not to go in the air.

Sagarika Ghose: Why do you think your writings 
are as controversial as they are. Why does India 
love to hate Arundhati Roy? Why does there are so 
much hate mail directed at you? Why do people 
think you say things that people don’t agree 
with? Why are you the writer that India loves to hate?

Arundhati Roy: I think it is very presumptuous of 
you to represent India. I feel the opposite. Like 
somebody, who is embraced wherever I go whether 
it is to Orissa or Narmada; it is just the people 
with the voice, the people with a huge stack in 
the things I’m writing about where that stack is 
threatened – that hate me. But if I did feel that 
whole of India hated me; I have been doing 
something terribly wrong. As a political writer I 
be crazy to carry on what I’m doing? The fact I I 
feel very deeply loved, that’s the real issue.

Sagarika Ghose: But do you think there is a 
problem. Do you think the government, the media, 
the kind of dominant culture is targeting 
intellectuals, is targeting people like human 
right activists? Is this dangerous?

Arundhati Roy: Of course this is very dangerous. 
I read one article that says Dantewada comes to 
Delhi in the charge against Kobad Ghandy. People 
union for democratic rights
.all institutions are 
been called front organizations. There is this 
manic barricade like accusation to any one who 
has a different view that they are Maoists. 
Hundreds of people who are not known have been 
picked up and jailed. There is whole bandwidth of 
people’s movement from the non-violent ones 
outside the forests to the arms struggle inside 
the forests which have actually held of this 
corporate assault, which I have to say has not 
happened in anywhere else in the world.

Sagarika Ghose: Let me just ask you what a viewer 
wrote to me, “ when I see a 16-year-old with a 
gun, I would feel scared and mourn that. Why 
would Arundhati Roy when look at a 16-year-old 
look with a gun celebrated and say she is so 
beautiful, she has a lovely smile”?

Arundhati Roy: Because if I saw a 16-year-old 
being raped by a CRPF man and watching her 
village being burnt and watching her parents 
being killed and submit to it. I would mourn 
that. When I see one standing up and say I ‘m 
going to fight this. I would feel terrible. I 
think it’s a terrible thing to come to that. But 
it’s better than having her accept her inhalation

Sagarika Ghose: Let me read out some of the 
criticisms that have been made against you fellow 
thinkers and activists, who said “ she equates 
their cynical quest for power with genuine 
demands, rights and concern of the people who 
live in the forests. She give new meaning to the 
binary logic something which she ridiculed George 
W Bush for. She is at the moment a victim of 
Stockholm Syndrome. And another par lance is that 
she would be described as an embedded 
journalist”. How do you react to this criticism?

Arundhati Roy: I think embedded is not in itself 
a bad thing, it depends on who your are embedded 
with, whether you are embedded with the media or 
with the corporate? Or are you embedded with the 
side that sees itself in resisting this. Here I 
don’t refer to the Maoists. Who are the Maoists? 
Of course the Maoists ideologues are that it is 
there aim to overthrow the Indian state when 
people who form there fighting forces don’t know 
what the Indian state is? But surely there is a 
coincidence of aims and the moment; both are 
using each others. I want to say that Maoists are 
not the only people who are trying to overthrow 
the Indian state; whereas Indian state has been 
thrown already by the ‘Hindutva’ project and by the corporate project.

Sagarika Ghose: So you believe that Constitution has ceased to exist?

Arundhati Roy: I believe it’s been deeply weakened.

Sagarika Ghose: Do you think of ever giving up 
India and living up in somewhere else?

Arundhati Roy: Absolutely not. For me that’s the 
challenge, that’s the beauty, that’s the wonder 
because the people in this country are staging 
the India’s most difficult struggle anywhere in 
the world. I feel so proud. I really salute them 
on what’s going on here. As I belong to here even 
if CSPA wants to put me into jail and I’m not going to live in Switzerland.

Sagarika Ghose: Thank you Arundhati Roy.

Arundhati Roy: Thanks.

Video Links to complete interview
War of the rich vs the poor - tribal village struggle in India: Arundhati Roy

Part One  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDjBCl6E7jQ
Part Two  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdNqwMwGdu0
Part Three  http://www.youtube.com/user/ddchalmers#p/a/u/1/QEjj-YJEVKA
Part Four  http://www.youtube.com/user/ddchalmers#p/a/u/0/oJzgMSTC5AU





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