[Ppnews] Daniel McGowan Speaks Out

[Political Prisoner News]

Monday, June 11th, 2007

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/11/142258

Exclusive: Facing Seven Years in Jail, 
Environmental Activist Daniel McGowan Speaks Out 
About the Earth Liberation Front, the Green Scare 
and the Government's Treatment of Activists as "Terrorists"


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Last week McGowan was sentenced to seven years in 
prison for his role in two acts of arson in 
Oregon in 2001. The judge ruled that one of the 
fires was an act of terrorism. He was sentenced 
along with nine other environmental activists – 
the government compared the activists to the Ku 
Klux Klan. We also speak with Lauren Regan of Civil Liberties Defense Center.

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Last week, a federal court sentenced 
environmental activist Daniel McGowan to seven 
years in prison for his role in two acts of arson 
in Oregon in 2001. The judge ruled that one of 
the fires was an act of terrorism. McGowan was 
one of six environmental activists arrested in 
December 2005 in coordinated multi-state raids dubbed “Operation backfire.”

A month later, they were indicted together with 
five others by a grand jury on charges of 
property destruction, arson, and conspiracy 
relating to actions going back nearly a decade 
which were attributed to the underground Earth 
Liberation Front. No one was hurt in any of the actions.

The eleven activists were threatened with life 
sentences if they refused to cooperate with the 
government and serve as informants. After months 
of negotiation, in November of last year, McGowan 
and three others pled guilty to some of the 
charges on the condition that they would remain 
non-cooperative with the state. As a result, the 
government has sought a “terrorism enhancement” 
for their sentences. The National Lawyers Guild 
called the terrorism sentencing enhancement 
issued to Daniel McGowan an unnecessary and 
excessive government tactic to discourage the exercise of free speech.

I am joined now in our New York Studio by Daniel 
McGowan, sentenced to seven years in prison last 
week. He begins his term on July 2 and this is 
his first broadcast interview since the sentencing.
    * Daniel McGowan, Environmental and social 
justice activist from New York. More info on his 
case is at <http://supportdaniel.org>SupportDaniel.org
    * Lauren Regan, Executive Director of the 
Eugene-based Civil Liberties Defense Center, 
which provides legal protection to environmental 
and social justice activists from corporate and 
governmental attacks on civil liberties.
AMY GOODMAN: Last week, the court sentenced 
environmental activist Daniel McGowan to seven 
years in prison, for his role in two arsons in 
Oregon in 2001. The judge ruled, one of the fires 
was an act of terrorism. McGowan was one of six 
environmental activists arrested in December 2005 
in coordinated multi-state raids dubbed 
“Operation Backfire.” A month later, they were 
indicted together with five others by a grand 
jury on charges of property destruction, arson, 
and conspiracy relating to actions going back 
nearly a decade, which were attributed to the 
underground Earth Liberation Front. No one was hurt in any of the actions.

The eleven activists were threatened with life 
sentences if they refused to cooperate with the 
government and serve as informants. After months 
of negotiation, in November of last year, McGowan 
and three others pled guilty to some of the 
charges, on the condition they would remain 
non-cooperative with the state. As a result, the 
government has sought a “terrorism enhancement” 
for their sentences. The National Lawyers Guild 
called the terrorism sentencing enhancement 
issued to Daniel McGowan an unnecessary and 
excessive government tactic to discourage the exercise of free speech.

I am joined now in our Firehouse studio by Daniel 
McGowan, sentenced to seven years in prison last 
week. He begins his term July 2. This is his 
first national broadcast interview since the 
sentencing. We welcome you to Democracy Now!, Daniel.

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Thanks for having me, Amy.

AMY GOODMAN: Let's go back to 2001. What happened?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Well in 2001, I was involved with 
the Earth Liberation Front and I was involved in 
two separate arsons in one year. One was at a 
company called Superior Lumber Corporation that 
was a logging an old growth forest in Oregon and 
the Northwest. The other was a company called 
Jefferson Poplar Farms, which, I believe, was 
involved in genetic engineering tree research. So 
I was involved in this group; we did these two 
arsons. I had severe reservations about being 
involved in destroying property, but I felt very 
strongly about the issues. I felt at the time, we 
were not getting anywhere with sort of polite 
protests, very disenchanted with the whole 
political process. And we targeted these two 
facilities for um, you know, using fire, and 
destroyed a significant portion of them. The 
actions were intended to destroy corporate 
property. We took extreme precautions in these 
actions so we wouldn't harm anyone. But after the 
second arson, I became incredibly disenchanted 
with the use of fire. I saw the rebound effect; I 
thought about how dangerous it was and the life, 
the lives that we put at risk by igniting 
basically a million and a half-dollar arson at 
Jefferson Poplar Farms. Along with some other 
issues it just lead to me leaving the group and 
moving on with life, getting back to the activism 
that I had been involved with for the last ten years.

AMY GOODMAN: Jefferson Poplar Farms and Superior Lumber. Why Superior Lumber?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Well, it had -- on some level it 
had to do with the fact that Superior Lumber was 
very similar to many of the lumber corporations 
in the Northwest. They weren't particularly -- 
they weren’t the largest, but they certainly just 
were logging old growth forest using helicopter 
logging and having a really devastating impact on 
the ecosystem there. They are very unpopular. A 
lot of people did not like the impact they were 
having on local ecosystems. But they were sort of 
picked because they were so unspectacular. But 
they're one of the many, many companies in the 
Northwest that are continuing to liquidate the 
national forest as well as, you know, private lands.

AMY GOODMAN: How did you set them on fire?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Well actually, I was a look-out 
for that ar- for that action. I had been 
involved, but only for a short amount of time. I 
didn't have a lot of experience with the creation 
of incendiary devices. I was invited from some 
people that I had met a few months prior and I 
was a look-out and with about four other people 
including the main informant in the case named 
Jacob Ferguson who wore a wire -- just in 2005 to wire our conversations.

AMY GOODMAN: In 2005?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Yes, in 2004 actually. But he was 
involved in that arson; he is not indicted for 
that. And you know it was a pretty simple affair, 
actually. And I was the look-out. And there is a 
few other people involved. And you know, when we 
were driving off, we heard the four-alarm radio 
signal and the next day we found out it was a million arson damage.

AMY GOODMAN: And what does it mean to say you 
became disenchanted? What then did you do?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Well, I had been involved in 
activism since around '97. And for a brief period 
of time in that activism, I took to destroying 
property as -- because I am essentially a very 
pragmatic person. I felt like I was willing to 
try other things. The tactics we were using were 
not working. We were sort of bringing up safety 
issues for myself and others. I was willing to 
look at that and say, well I need to step back in this. I have to say the --

AMY GOODMAN: Were you concerned that someone 
might have been asleep inside, or --

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Well, I wasn't concerned about 
that cause I think we took extreme precautions 
and definitely many actions were called off based 
on things like security guards. What did it for 
me was, some of the members of the group I was 
involved in went and -- right when my friend Jeff 
Luers was about to go on trial -- went back and 
destroyed 36 SUV's at the same exact car lot that 
Jeff was going on trial for burning a year prior. 
And I have to say that had a massive impact on 
his trial and he chose a judge trial at the 
moment -- at that time - and got a 22 year, eight 
– uh, 22 year, eight month sentence. And that 
sort of carelessness really made me step back and 
start to look at my actions as being very 
dangerous and having repercussions beyond my control.

AMY GOODMAN: What were you recorded in 2004 saying by Jacob Ferguson?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Well, Jacob was an old friend. 
And I was recorded essentially reminiscing with 
old friends about things that we were involved 
in. So there is definitely a lot of leading me 
into conversations about these actions. It wasn't 
a direct confessional, but I was certainly -- 
listening to the wire taps, you can see that I 
was involved in these actions and I had knowledge 
about particular things. So, it was certainly enough to get an indictment.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Jacob chose to cooperate.

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: You have chosen not to.

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: What does that mean?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Well, essentially it’s me living 
my life as I was taught by my parents, which is 
you don't point fingers at people to get out of 
trouble. And I made promises to myself at that 
time and to others that I wouldn't ever blame 
them. If we were ever in trouble I would never 
blame them for getting into trouble. My three 
codefendants and I have chosen that route. And by 
choosing that route we have definitely been -- 
the government would say we haven't been punished 
but we have definitely been punished in the sense 
of like just getting a lot of hostility and venom 
on the part of the prosecution and even the judge.

AMY GOODMAN: And Jacob's decision, your old friend, your thoughts?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Well, I think it is really sad. I 
think he fell into a really sad time in his life 
and he was abusing drugs. And they used the 
threat of taking his child away from him. I think 
it is ultimately a really horrible choice and I 
don’t know how he lives with himself but I mostly 
these days feel a lot of pity for Jacob, more than anything.

AMY GOODMAN: What happens to him?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Well, from what I understood from 
one of the defense counsels, who sat in court 
last month, Jacob is going to be pleading to one 
count of arson and receiving probation this month 
in Lane County. I suppose a stern lecture from 
the judge but that doesn't always make it easier 
on any of the nine plus defendants that are now going to federal prison.

AMY GOODMAN: We're talking to Daniel McGowan, 
environmental and social justice activist who 
will be reporting for jail. Well, it is not clear 
when, set for July 2, maybe longer. We will talk 
about that. We will talk about the Environmental 
and Animal Liberation Front when we come back 
with our guest, Daniel McGowan. Stay with us.

AMY GOODMAN: Our guest today is Daniel McGowan, 
environmental activist, has just been sentenced 
for two arsons he was involved with in 2001 in 
Oregon, sentenced along with other people. He's 
headed to jail perhaps July 2 unless he's able to 
put it off for the month that he is asking for. 
We're also joined on the telephone by another 
guest. We're joined on the phone by Lauren Regan, 
executive director of the Eugene-based Civil 
Liberties Defense Center, which provides legal 
protection to environmental and social justice 
activists from corporate and governmental attacks 
on civil liberties. We welcome you to Democracy Now!, Lauren Regan.

LAUREN REGAN: Thanks, Amy.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about this case, Daniel McGowan's case?

LAUREN REGAN: Sure. I think there are probably 
two overarching important issues relating to this 
case that make it important for everyone across 
the country to really take a look at and 
scrutinize what is going on here. And the first 
is that since Daniel's arrest and other's arrest 
in December of 2005, the government has attempted 
to say that this case is not political. However, 
the evidence sharply disdains that point of view. 
Primarily, as soon as these folks were arrested, 
Alberto Gonzales, our chief attorney and 
beleaguered head of the country’s legal division, 
got on television stations and had a press 
conference where he labeled these American 
citizens as eco-terrorists. These were 
individuals that were innocent until proven 
guilty. At this point, all of them had presumed 
innocence, and yet the head lawyer of the nation 
in a pre-trial press conference labels them as 
eco-terrorists, basically destroying any 
possibility they would have had as a fair trial.

And that theme has permeated throughout 
proceedings including even at the sentencing; the 
government was still trying to say that this case 
was not political. And it is sandwiched by the 
fact that as soon as nine out of ten individuals 
were sentenced, Gonzales again has another press 
conference after the sentencing, thanking his 
crew for the good work they have done and again 
labeling them as eco-terrorists.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to go to that moment, to the 
sentencing, June 4, the governments lawyers 
comparing Daniel McGowan and the other defendants 
to the Klu Klux Klan. This is a clip of your 
lawyer, Daniel, Jeffrey Robinson speaking about 
this outside the federal courthouse in Eugene, Oregon.

JEFFREY ROBINSON: The thing that I would like to 
say is that both Ms. Lee and I have a great deal 
of respect for the lawyers in the U.S. attorney's 
office. And in particular Mr. Pfeiffer who made 
the argument for the government at the terrorism 
enhancement motion several weeks back. While I 
respect him and while I think he is a good and 
decent man, Mr. Pfeiffer lacks knowledge about 
things that he discussed in that courtroom. He 
stood in that courtroom as a representative of 
the United States government and told Judge Aiken 
that Daniel McGowan and his codefendants were 
essentially the same as the terrorists from the 
Klu Klux Klan. That meant something to me 
personally as an African-American. And I am 
disappointed that my federal government would 
make that kind of a comparison in a case like 
this. I grew up in Memphis, Tennessee, and I was 
born in 1956. I know something about the Klu Klux 
Klan and what they were about. And what they were 
about was murder, was killing, completely 
different from Daniel McGowan and these defendants.

AMY GOODMAN: Lauren Regan, um, of the Civil 
Liberties Defense Center, would you care to elaborate on that point?

LAUREN REGAN: : Well, this was this -- you know, 
there was so much rhetoric, so many exaggerated 
statements made throughout each proceeding that 
occurred in federal court recently. I mean, some 
of them as outrageous as comparing them to the 
Klu Klux Klan, others much more subtle. And you 
know, the judge, that statement went on and the 
judge herself also stood silent and didn't 
comment at all on this type of -- sort of 
slanderous statement. That combined with the fact 
that the government and the court continued to 
protest that the government was not attempting to 
label these individuals as terrorists, that was 
the other giant miss that was going on. They 
repeatedly would say, oh, we're not trying to 
label these individuals as terrorists for the 
rest of their life, we just happen to be seeking 
this terrorist enhancement against them for the 
first time in the history of the United States, 
that this enhancement was applied to individuals 
charged with property crimes that didn't cause any harm to human life.

And so regardless of the lip speak that the 
government continued to give to the court and to 
the public, it was incredibly clear that that is 
exactly what they were trying to do. There was no 
other purpose or reason that this terrorist 
enhancement should have been applied to ten 
individuals, ten young people who committed acts 
of sabotage, which of course are crimes. But the 
crime of arson and some of the other crimes that 
these individuals were already charged with 
carried more than a life sentence. One of 
Daniel’s codefendants was looking at life plus 
1150 years for his role in two arsons. But yet 
the government somehow needed this terrorist 
enhancement to additionally punish them, if not 
to label them as terrorists and the resulting 
chill that would trickle down to the 
environmental movement, there was absolutely no 
other legal or other purpose they would have 
needed this enhancement, other than to go back to 
Congress and be able to proclaim, look, we have 
convicted ten terrorists, now give us billions of 
dollars to continue this fight and give us these 
tools to legally spy on U.S. citizens, as we know 
they have done throughout the last several years.

AMY GOODMAN: I am looking at an article on 
Counterpunch by Michael Donnelley that talks 
about this case. And it says: “Fast forward two 
years, the government's target becomes the 
grassroots. Under the code name “Operation 
Backfire” the feds began the largest round up of 
eco-activists in American history. On December 7, 
2005, seven people arrested and charged with 
participating in a wide array of property 
destruction actions the feds linked to the Earth 
Liberation Front and the Animal Liberation Front. 
The very same day, several more folks were 
subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury in 
Eugene, Oregon. A full dragnet was launched 
against grassroots activists. On June 20, 2006, 
Ashcroft’s successor, Attorney General Alberto 
Gonzales announced the 65-count indictment 
against a fictional entity, the government calls 
the family. Four more arrests brought the total 
to 11 with conspiracy charges now added. 
Ironically, after serving ten years also on the 
very same day, Michael Fortier who was convicted 
for his part in the Oklahoma City bombing, which 
killed 168 people, was released from jail. In 
contrast, the government is threatening 
environmentalists who injured no one with 
extraordinary sentences ranging from 30 years to 
life plus 335 years.” Lauren and then Daniel, I will get your response.

LAUREN REGAN: : Well, that is definitely accurate 
information. On the same day that Jonathan Paul 
was set to be sentenced, the government was 
seeking 57 months for his role as a look-out in 
an arson that happened in 1997 to the Cattle West 
Horse Slaughterhouse facility. And on that same 
day, Scooter Libby was sentenced for his role in 
outing Valerie Plame as a CIA operative to 20 
months. So when you start comparing the 
prosecutions of the right versus the left, the 
fact that over 30 abortion doctors have been 
killed by right-wing extremists, yet this 
enhancement was never sought. The Oklahoma City 
bombing, as wha- you know, Michael Fortier being 
one of the defendants in that, the terrorist 
enhancement never sought in those cases.

So, you see clear discretion being exercised in 
favor of right versus left political wins, which 
of course is intolerable when you are talking 
about justice and equality and, you know, like 
crimes being prosecuted in like manner. All of 
these are grave injuries to our entire system of 
justice, not in particular to this case. And 
let's not forget that deforestation is the number 
2 cause of climate change in the United States 
right now. And so, instead of actually addressing 
these issues and uh, you know, stop subsidizing 
the timber industry, the government has chosen to 
kind of deflect that nationwide attention onto 
these particular crimes. And they ask, you know, 
what could have been done to prevent this type of 
action, this action that Daniel and others took. 
And clearly, if the government had taken 
responsibility and had actually addressed some of 
these huge environmental issues, actions like 
this would not have been necessary, particularly 
with regard to climate change, even the judge in 
court admitted that there are only eight years 
until the planet is tipped to the point of no 
return. But yet, we still see politicians and 
others sitting on their hands. If the government 
wants to know what is the easiest way to stop 
underground activists from acting in this way, 
well, being responsible politicians and actually 
dealing with these issues would be a real easy cure.

AMY GOODMAN: Daniel McGowan, would you care to 
respond to the disparity in sentences in a case 
like well, Fortier – Michael Fortier coming out 
of jail at a time that you were all being indicted?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Well, it is ironic, of course, 
but uh, it’s something I was very familiar with, 
doing support for Jeffrey Luers, um, seeing all 
these arson cases where people get, you know, I 
think the federal uh, you know, average arson 
sentence is 3.5 years. And I’m looking at, you 
know, seven years. And uh, you know, peop- 
looking at people lik Scooter Libby, looking at 
these, uh, right-wing terrorists getting, you 
know, slapped on the wrists, is really offensive. 
Um, one thing that was interesting was when the 
re-indictment happened with Alberto Gonzalez and 
John Lewis having a press conference in DC. That 
was also the same day as the Senate wire tapping 
investigation, or the hearings. So I think that 
the government – you know there’s an analogy used 
in court often by the judge, about having my cake 
and eat it too. And I think it’ really 
interesting, cuz um, there were times where, I 
think everyone in the courtroom was scratching 
their head. On one hand, it’s not a political 
case. I'm told that I am an arsonist, I’m not 
gonna be a political prisoner. The judge was very 
upset at that, um seeing that on my website. Um, 
but then I am not being treated as an arsonist, 
I’m facing a mandatory life sentence. On the 
other hand, it’s not terrorism. And then they're 
seeking the enhancement. it seems like they were 
so sensitive to what was being said in the media 
and in particular, my codefendant, Jonathan 
Paul’s sister, had a very about widely 
distributed op-ed piece about my brother the 
terrorist. And they were literally responding to 
it in court. And so my answer - my question was – 
you know, if I’m not a terrorist, then why are 
you seeking an enhancement? And if DC is not 
running the show as they said – as they claimed – 
they actually at one point said: we haven't had a 
phone call from them in six months as if that 
meant something, as if that meant, er, erased the 
legacy of the Attorney-General of the United 
States getting up there. And I as at Lane County 
at the time, I didn't even hear about it until I 
got an article, and I picked it up and I was 
like, oh my God, Gonzalez just said something 
about my case. I’m really sensing that this is 
going to go bad, at this point. Uh, it’s always 
felt like DC was pulling strings, I mean. >

AMY GOODMAN: John Lewis, the Deputy, Assistant 
Director of the FBI, uh, said one of today’s most 
serious domestic terrorism threats come from 
special interest’s extremist groups, such as the 
Animal Liberation Front, the Earth Liberation 
Front, and Stop Huntington Animal Cruelty 
Campaign. Can you explain these groups, who these groups are?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Sure. Um, the Earth and Animal 
Liberation Front I think is a response to 
extreme, uh, disenchantment on the part of young 
people that don't see any way of effectively 
making change. I, I see it as uh, there are 
groups that employee property destruction, arson 
and the liberation of animals from laboratories 
and other facilities. Um, you know, I left the 
ELF in 2001, but When I hear, you know, these 
definitions being thrown around like that, it 
just, it kinda makes me shutter. Now, uh, Stop 
Huntington Animal Cruelty was, eh, you know, 
until recently, legal, above-ground campaign, 
that was trying to close a animal laboratory, 
named Huntington Life Sciences, in New Jersey and 
England. And I think the property rights movement 
and the government likes to conflate, you know, 
sort of above-ground legal groups with 
underground groups in a way of kind of like, just 
having them blend in together. So they can use 
the same exact legal tools and repress – 
repression against groups like that. And they’ll 
often throw Earth First in with that definition. 
So it’s the ELF, ALF, Earth First, as if they're 
all really the same thing. Even though they are 
choosing radically different tactics, based on their affiliation.

AMY GOODMAN: You grew up here in New York.

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Yeah. Yes, in Rockaway.

AMY GOODMAN: How did you end up in Oregon?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Uh, funny question. Uh, well 
yeah, I grew up in the city. And it’s strange, 
you know, when people say, Oh, environmentalists 
that grew up in Rockaway, its kind of hard to 
imagine. But, I was working in nonprofits in 
Manhattan. Different rainforest protection 
groups. And I went to a, a environmental 
gathering out west and I met a bunch, a bunch of 
really interesting people, and it blew my mind. I 
told myself I was gonna go to the Headwaters 
Forest Campaign, and when I was, literally, in 
the center of the nation, on a train David Gypsy 
Chain was killed by a logger, and by the time I got to San Francisco


AMY GOODMAN: He was protesting logging and a 
logger had cut a tree, and it fell on him


DANIEL MCGOWAN: Exactly, it killed him. And uh, 
so I was told, you know, we don't have spots in 
our campaigns, so I stuck around in San 
Francisco, until I eventually went to Eugene to 
work with the Earth First Journal. I was blown 
away by Oregon. I had never seen trees like that 
before, I had never seen forests or animals or 
anything like that. And so, I had, it had a 
really profound impact on me. And I was already 
quite radicalized by, I was, I couldn't believe 
uh, the fact that people accepted what was going 
on there. I couldn't believe the clear-cuts on 
the, on, on mountain tops. I couldn’t believe the 
animal cruelty that I experience – that I saw.

AMY GOODMAN: Daniel, how are you preparing for prison?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Well, it’s been a long time 
coming. I got arrested 18 months ago, and it was 
pretty clear to me that I would be doing some time from that...

AMY GOODMAN: We had your wife on then.

DANIEL MCGOWAN: That’s right. That’s right.

AMY GOODMAN: How is she doing?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: She's doing well. She's really 
excellent. She’s a great person and she’s handled 
this really well. She’s been running my support 
campaign from Day One. Putting up the website, 
dealing with all the work that is required. The 
excessive fundraising that we have to deal with 
for legal costs. I have been in contact with a 
lot of people that have done time in the federal 
system, I’ve been reading as much as I can, I’m 
reading everything, obviously on the Bureau 
Prisons website, which is pretty minimal. Um, 
I’ve been talking to prisoners and trying to 
figure out where I am going. There’s still just 
so many question marks. I know how long, I don't 
know where I am going. Um, so I


AMY GOODMAN: You are asking to stay out of jail beyond July 2nd.

DANIEL MCGOWAN: We will be asking that at some 
point, yes. Um, the judge gave me a self-report 
day of July 2nd. My intention was to finish my 
classes which end in about a week and a half and 
wait for the Bureau Prisons to let me know where 
I am going, and then just go right to that 
prison. But I uh, in April I started a master's 
program in Environmental Sociology, at Antioch 
University. Just sort of a self-directed, 
self-created program, I have my own, I recruit my 
own instructors, make my own classes and it will 
end up with me getting a master's degree in two 
years. And hopefully, I will be able to do that in prison.

AMY GOODMAN: As you reflect on your life right now, what are your thoughts?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Ah, it’s really hard, I’m still 
trying to get the big picture of all this. Uh, I 
definitely have regrets. I have regrets that I, 
you know, employed arson as a tactic. I don't 
think morally I’m wrong about what I did, but I 
do think, strategically and tactically it is 
unwise decision. I wish that I had people in my 
life at the time to kinda guide me back to a 
different path. But you know, I was very 
disenchanted and very upset about what I saw. I 
think those feelings are legitimate and I think 
young kids that have these feelings right now and 
not so young kids are, um, you know, they're 
legitimate thoughts and we have to, basically, we 
have to come up with ways of dealing with the 
crisis and stop ignoring it. And that was my 
message to the media that day, after sentencing, 
was we have to stop pretending this is all about 
crime and punishment and start dealing with like, 
real issues, like global climate change.

AMY GOODMAN: Your lawyer filed a motion, 
compelling the government to declose- disclose – 
whether the National Security Agency had 
conducted a legal surveillance and monitoring 
during the investigation. Can you take about the 
surveillance? And I would also like to put the 
question to Lauren Regan, in a bigger sense.

DANIEL MCGOWAN: We were never able to determine 
whether or not there was any actual surveillance. 
I think, uh, from what we are seeing in the media 
and what we’re seeing from Gonzalez and Bush's 
failed statements about surveillance, I’m 
assuming there was a lot. But the government was 
really very squeamish about it. They fought the, 
uh, motion, very hard. And when we were in plea 
negotiations, removing that motion was a key part 
of the plea agreement going forward. So we 
removed, er, we rescinded our motion as a result of that.

AMY GOODMAN: Lauren, your response.

LAUREN REGAN: Well, I would agree with Daniel 
that the motion was probably the tipping point, 
strangely, for the government to non-cooperation 
deals. Up until that point, they had said you 
will either go to trial and get life in prison or 
you will cooperate with the federal government 
and name names. And for the last four defendants 
that was just an unworkable situation. And we 
filed that motion. Basically, the judge ordered a 
person from Washington, DC -- it was interesting. 
When the hearing first happened, the US Attorney 
stood up and tried to say that he personally was 
not aware of any illegal surveillance and so that 
should be good enough. And the judge said, no, 
you need to bring somebody from Washington, DC, 
that is in the Central Intelligence Agency and 
have them testify under oath that in fact that 
did not occur. And prior to pushing that envelope 
as far as we possibly could, the government 
capitulated to the non-cooperation deals, and, 
uh, like Daniel mentioned, the motion was 
rescinded based on that. It was also filed in the 
case of Brianna Waters, which is a codefendant, 
who is being prosecuted for the University of 
Washington arson, uh, in the state of Washington. 
And interestingly, in those Washington cases no 
terrorist enhancement is being sought for them. 
But her attorneys also filed a motion seeking NSA 
disclosures and that’s currently being battled in 
the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

AMY GOODMAN: If people want to get more 
information on your case and what is happening to 
you, your time in prison, Daniel, where can they go?

DANIEL MCGOWAN: Well, they can go to the website 
run by friends and family. It’s 
<http://www.supportDaniel.org>www.supportDaniel.org

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you for being 
with us Daniel McGowan. We will certainly follow 
your case and follow the latest also when you are 
going to prison. Lauren Regan, Executive Director 
of the Eugene-based Civil Liberties Defense 
Center, thanks very much for joining us.




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