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        class="preview">Dr. Mohammed Al-Hindi, a top leader of
        Palestinian Islamic Jihad, discusses October 7, the war against
        Israel, and whether Trump or Biden would be better for Palestine</div>
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href="https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=2510348&post_id=146643956&utm_source=post-email-title&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=lvppb&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjozNjc1MTU4MywicG9zdF9pZCI6MTQ2NjQzOTU2LCJpYXQiOjE3MjExMzgyODksImV4cCI6MTcyMzczMDI4OSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTI1MTAzNDgiLCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.wYEQXJAoJF2_xJzzsSOgGlaATnlNORIe6h6zjMJHfO0"
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                        moz-do-not-send="true">Exclusive: Palestinian
                        Islamic Jihad speaks to Drop Site News</a></h1>
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style="-moz-appearance: optimizelegibility; -moz-osx-font-smoothing: antialiased; -webkit-appearance: optimizelegibility; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; appearance: optimizelegibility; color: #777777; font-family: 'SF Pro Display', -apple-system-headline, system-ui, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 18px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 24px; margin: 4px 0 0; margin-top: 12px;">Dr.
                      Mohammed Al-Hindi, a top leader of Palestinian
                      Islamic Jihad, discusses October 7, the war
                      against Israel, and whether Trump or Biden would
                      be better for Palestine</h3>
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href="https://substack.com/@jeremyscahill"
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datetime="2024-07-16T13:56:54.433Z">Jul 16</time></div>
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                            alt=""
style="-ms-interpolation-mode: bicubic; border: none !important; display: block; height: auto; margin: 0 auto; margin-bottom: 0; max-width: 100% !important; vertical-align: middle; width: 100%;"
                            moz-do-not-send="true" width="1294"
                            height="867"></a><figcaption
                          class="image-caption"
style="box-sizing: content-box; color: #777777; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: -.15px; line-height: 20px; margin-top: 8px; padding-left: 15%; padding-right: 15%; text-align: center; width: 70%;">Mohammed
                          Al-Hindi in 2005. Photo: Mahmud Hams/AFP via
                          Getty.</figcaption></figure>
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                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Before
                      Hamas, there was Palestinian Islamic Jihad. The
                      resistance movement, founded in 1981, organized
                      itself around the principle that defeat of Israeli
                      occupation and subjugation could only be achieved
                      through armed struggle, and it sought to merge the
                      secular and Islamist strands of the Palestinian
                      political landscape. For 30 years, PIJ has engaged
                      in a campaign of paramilitary warfare against
                      Israel and has controlled the second largest armed
                      Palestinian resistance faction. While Hamas has
                      governed the Gaza Strip since 2006, PIJ has often
                      set the tone for increased militancy toward Israel
                      and has proven its willingness to engage in
                      battles on its own.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Though
                      PIJ says it did not know about the October 7
                      attacks ahead of time, its armed wing joined the
                      Hamas-led operation that morning, took hostages of
                      its own, and—together with Hamas’s Al-Qassam
                      Brigades—has waged a nine-month guerrilla war in
                      Gaza against Israeli occupation forces.</p>
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                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Senior
                      leaders of PIJ rarely grant interviews to Western
                      journalists, but Dr. Mohammed Al-Hindi, the
                      group’s second highest-ranking official, agreed to
                      sit down for a wide-ranging, in-person interview
                      with Drop Site News. Al-Hindi discussed PIJ’s role
                      in the October 7 attacks, what he sees as the
                      political aims of the operations, his perspective
                      on President Joe Biden’s push to revive a
                      “two-state” solution, Donald Trump and the U.S.
                      elections, the Abraham Accords, and the future of
                      Palestinian liberation and politics. He also
                      discusses PIJ’s ties to Iran and explains why he
                      believes Israel would face a catastrophe in
                      Lebanon if it decided to go to war against
                      Hezbollah.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Since
                      the early 1980s, Al-Hindi has been a central
                      figure in Palestinian Islamic Jihad and currently
                      serves as its deputy secretary general and chief
                      political negotiator. He is a pediatrician by
                      training and early in his career worked at
                      Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza. Al-Hindi was jailed for
                      a year during the First Intifada and has been
                      imprisoned several times by both the Israeli
                      government and the Palestinian Authority. In 2004,
                      Israeli helicopters fired several missiles at
                      Al-Hindi’s office in Gaza in what was widely
                      believed to be an assassination attempt. Al-Hindi
                      is the chief of PIJ’s political department and the
                      top deputy to its secretary general, Ziyad
                      Al-Nakhalah. He led PIJ’s negotiations with Israel
                      that achieved a ceasefire in May 2023 and
                      continues to advise Hamas negotiators in the
                      current war. In 2019, Al-Hindi was named a
                      Specially Designated Global Terrorist by the U.S.
                      State Department.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Drop
                      Site News has decided to publish the interview
                      with Al-Hindi in full because we believe it is in
                      the public interest to examine the perspectives of
                      a top figure in the current Palestinian armed
                      resistance and the second in command of an
                      organization at the center of Israel’s genocidal
                      war against the Palestinians of Gaza.</p>
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                    <h2 class="header-anchor-post"
style="-moz-appearance: optimizelegibility; -moz-osx-font-smoothing: antialiased; -webkit-appearance: optimizelegibility; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; appearance: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-family: 'SF Pro Display', -apple-system-headline, system-ui, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 1.625em; font-weight: bold; line-height: 1.16em; margin: 1em 0 0.625em 0; position: relative;">Palestinian
                      Islamic Jihad: The Backstory</h2>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Palestinian
                      Islamic Jihad began to carry out armed attacks
                      against Israel in 1984, three years prior to the
                      founding of Hamas. More than a decade before the
                      first Oslo Accord was signed in 1993, PIJ’s
                      founders took the position that the Palestine
                      Liberation Organization of Yasser Arafat had
                      started the Palestinians on a course to disaster
                      by opening the door to conceding substantial land
                      to Israel in a two-state settlement. The founders
                      were also inspired by the 1979 Islamic Revolution
                      in Iran and saw the overthrow of the U.S.-backed
                      shah as evidence that they could topple their
                      oppressors. </p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">“In
                      the 1980s, when a young guard of Palestinian
                      students wanted the Muslim Brotherhood to engage
                      in armed violence or in armed struggle against
                      Israeli occupation, they were dissatisfied with
                      the Muslim Brotherhood’s lack of interest in armed
                      struggle,” said Erik Skare, a postdoctoral
                      researcher at the University of Oslo who is widely
                      viewed as one of the leading English-language
                      scholars on PIJ. “If you were a Palestinian in the
                      1980s in the Gaza Strip who wanted to participate
                      in the armed struggle, there was no feasible
                      vehicle to do so. On the one hand, you had the
                      Islamist movement that did not partake in the
                      military armed struggle. And on the other hand,
                      you had the secular nationalists who were either
                      in jail, [or] who were incapacitated.” PIJ filled
                      this void.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><span>Skare
                        has written two books on the group, including </span><em>A
                        History of Palestinian Islamic Jihad: Faith,
                        Revolution and Awareness in the Middle East</em><span>.
                        He said PIJ’s founders rejected what they saw as
                        the dogmatism of the Muslim Brotherhood, from
                        which Hamas rose. “They did not just read Ibn
                        Taymiyya. They didn't just read Sayyid Qutb.
                        They didn't just read Hassan al-Banna. They read
                        Lenin, they read Jean-Paul Sartre, they read
                        Fyodor Dostoevsky. They read everything that
                        they could come across as they tried to figure
                        out the future and the way forward and out of
                        that Palestinian impasse,” Skare told me. “They
                        wanted to be true to their religion and go to
                        the cinema. They wanted to read, study Islamist
                        orthodoxy, while being open to new ideas.”</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">In
                      August 1987, members of PIJ ambushed and killed an
                      Israeli army officer in the Gaza Strip, in what
                      would become a precursor to a broader Palestinian
                      revolt. During the First Intifada, which began in
                      December, the PIJ expanded its armed operations in
                      Gaza and the West Bank, initially utilizing
                      stones, knives, and small arms. By the end of the
                      decade, the group’s senior leadership was exiled
                      and many of its members jailed. In 1992, Israel
                      deported hundreds of PIJ and Hamas members,
                      including influential leaders of both movements,
                      to Lebanon. In exile, the two groups forged closer
                      ties and discussed coordinating actions against
                      Israel. PIJ also deepened its relationship with
                      Hezbollah, the Islamic Republic of Iran, and the
                      Syrian government. Its members received military
                      training and support from all three.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">PIJ
                      rose to international recognition and infamy in
                      the 1990s as both it and Hamas began to conduct
                      suicide bombings against Israeli civilians and
                      military targets. PIJ also began to formally
                      organize its paramilitary wing, Saraya Al-Quds,
                      the Jerusalem Brigades. On January 22, 1995, a PIJ
                      operative disguised as an Israeli soldier
                      approached a crowded bus stop in the central
                      Israeli town of Beit Lid where Israeli soldiers
                      were awaiting transport back to their bases. The
                      operative detonated an explosive belt in the
                      middle of the crowd. A few minutes later, a second
                      suicide bomber attacked. In all, 21 Israeli
                      soldiers and one civilian were killed. “We confirm
                      our ability to penetrate all the enemy’s false
                      security lines and reach the heart of the enemy,”
                      a top PIJ leader said in claiming responsibility
                      for the attack. President Bill Clinton responded
                      the next day by issuing an executive order
                      criminalizing any financial support for PIJ.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">In
                      1997, both PIJ and Hamas were officially
                      designated as terrorist organizations by the U.S.
                      State Department. During the Second Intifada,
                      which began in September 2002 and lasted for
                      nearly five years, both organizations engaged in
                      military battles against Israeli forces and
                      conducted extensive suicide bombings inside
                      Israel.</p>
                    <div class="pullquote"
style="border-bottom: 1px solid #e6e6e6; border-top: 1px solid #e6e6e6; font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 32px auto;">
                      <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; font-style: italic; font-weight: 500; line-height: 26px; margin: 32px 0; text-align: center;">"The
                        logic is pretty much the same as the PLO in the
                        1960s and 1970s—that what has been taken with
                        force has to be regained by force."</p>
                    </div>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">In
                      the years since the last intifada, PIJ has
                      cultivated its presence in both the West Bank and
                      Gaza, from which it has regularly engaged in
                      rocket attacks against Israeli military targets
                      and cities. Unlike Hamas, PIJ is not a political
                      party that fields candidates for elections run by
                      the Palestinian Authority, as it rejects the
                      entire framework of the Oslo Accords that gave
                      rise to the PA. Instead, PIJ has prioritized
                      confronting Israeli settler colonialism and
                      occupation through direct military action. “They
                      fight for the entirety of historical Palestine
                      from the river to the sea,” said Skare. “The logic
                      is pretty much the same as the PLO in the 1960s
                      and 1970s—that what has been taken with force has
                      to be regained by force.”</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><span>While
                        PIJ is often narrowly portrayed as a violent
                        Islamic terror organization, it views itself
                        both as an armed vanguard advocating a unified
                        liberation movement and a political and social
                        movement rooted in Islamist and Palestinian
                        history and culture. “We saw two categories of
                        Palestinian: the nationalists, who talked about
                        liberating Palestine but who forgot about Islam,
                        and the traditionalists, who talked about Islam
                        and an Islamic state but who forgot about
                        Palestine,” observed PIJ's founder Dr. Fathi
                        Shaqaqi in an </span><a
href="https://substack.com/redirect/44b4d1a3-5c3e-4965-af56-3c912793b097?j=eyJ1IjoibHZwcGIifQ.9RIwWbE6EVIB7Jy8lfazxZKfps8R18neRGMKwOiqnRM"
                        rel=""
                        style="color: #00058c; text-decoration: none;"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">interview</a><span> in
                        1995, nine months before he was assassinated by
                        the Mossad in front of a Malta hotel. “We had to
                        solve this problematic issue, to make the
                        crossing-point between nationalist and
                        Islamist.”</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Many
                      of PIJ’s earliest recruits were drawn from the
                      ranks of the secular PLO, and PIJ’s leaders forged
                      a path to uniting that secular revolutionary
                      spirit with Islamist ideas. Its central objective
                      was to reclaim all territory seized during the
                      creation of the state of Israel in 1948 and to
                      avenge the violent displacement and killing of
                      Palestinians during the Nakba. “Islamic Jihad
                      turned the logic of the Muslim Brotherhood upside
                      down,” said Skare. “The Muslim Brotherhood focused
                      on Islamization for liberation. That is, you had
                      to Islamize Palestinian society first and prepare
                      the Palestinian masses by spreading Islamic values
                      so could you prepare them for the armed struggle
                      to liberate Palestine. But Islamic Jihad, on the
                      other hand, they said first we have to liberate
                      the Occupied Palestinian Territories, and only
                      then can we focus on Islamization.”</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Skare
                      said that despite its designation by the U.S. and
                      other Western nations as a terrorist organization,
                      PIJ does not conduct attacks outside of historic
                      Palestine. “It also distances itself from attacks
                      against the West and also against Israelis outside
                      of Israeli or Palestinian territory because it
                      would weaken the Palestinian struggle and the
                      legitimacy of the Palestinian struggle,” Skare
                      said. “They make it quite clear that their
                      struggle is not against Israelis because of their
                      Jewish faith, but because of the occupation.”</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Since
                      Hamas’s founding in 1987, its relations with PIJ
                      have seen periods of tight coordination as well as
                      conflict, strategic disagreement, and turf wars.
                      After Hamas won the democratic elections in the
                      Occupied Palestinian Territories in 2006 and
                      consolidated its control of the Gaza Strip, the
                      two groups often synchronized their operations
                      against Israel. The year it took power in Gaza,
                      Hamas announced an end to the use of suicide
                      bombings against Israel, causing the number of
                      such attacks to plummet. Hamas said the tactic had
                      only been deployed during an “exceptional period.”</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">While
                      Hamas became a governing authority, responsible
                      for the basic administration of civil life on the
                      Gaza Strip, PIJ eluded these functions and
                      squarely focused on armed resistance. PIJ opened
                      its doors to Palestinians who prioritized armed
                      action against Israel, including those “that were
                      dissatisfied with the governance project of
                      Hamas,” said Skare, who has interviewed senior PIJ
                      figures. “It says something about the way [PIJ]
                      can push other armed movements.”</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">PIJ
                      and Hamas formed a united front in a series of
                      shorter duration wars in the years following
                      Hamas’s election, including in 2009, 2012, and
                      2014. In 2018, the two groups revived a joint
                      operations center with other smaller armed
                      factions in Gaza. In May 2021, PIJ and Hamas
                      launched a barrage of rockets at Israel in
                      response to Israeli attacks on Palestinian
                      worshippers at Al-Aqsa mosque and threats of
                      evictions in East Jerusalem, killing 12 Israeli
                      civilians. Israel launched an intense 11-day
                      bombing campaign against Gaza, during which more
                      than 250 Palestinians were killed and some 1,900
                      injured. The war ended when President Joe Biden
                      called Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
                      and told him the runway was finished. Both Hamas
                      and PIJ leaders made clear that while a truce was
                      reached, the broader war would endure. “We will
                      come to you, God willing, in a roaring flood,”
                      Hamas’s Gaza leader Yahya Sinwar declared in a
                      speech in December 2022. “We will come to you with
                      endless rockets, we will come to you in a
                      limitless flood of soldiers, we will come to you
                      with millions of our people, like the repeating
                      tide.” </p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">While
                      Hamas generally respected the Egyptian-brokered
                      ceasefire with Israel, PIJ and Israel continued to
                      fight. In August 2022, Israel began a campaign of
                      targeted assassinations against senior PIJ leaders
                      in Gaza, killing important commanders. Israel said
                      the attacks were “preemptive” strikes. Two of the
                      Israeli airstrikes killed dozens of Palestinians,
                      including children. In retaliation, PIJ launched
                      more than 1,000 rockets into Israeli territory as
                      Israel pummeled Gaza with further air raids.
                      Israel also swept PIJ strongholds in the West
                      Bank, arresting PIJ operatives.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">The
                      intermittent battles between Israel and PIJ lasted
                      until May 13, 2023, when an Egyptian-brokered
                      ceasefire was declared. While Hamas was not a
                      party to the fighting, it praised PIJ for
                      “defending the Palestinian people against the most
                      recent Israeli aggression against the Gaza Strip.”</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Prior
                      to October 7, Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s Al-Quds
                      force was estimated, in Western government and
                      media sources, to have between one and eight
                      thousand fighters in Gaza. Sources within PIJ,
                      however, say the number of fighters and logistical
                      support personnel exceeded 10,000 (reliable,
                      verifiable statistics do not exist). While it is a
                      smaller force than Hamas’s Qassam Brigades, which
                      prior to October 7 was estimated in the range of
                      20,000–30,000 soldiers, PIJ also enjoys a stronger
                      paramilitary presence in the West Bank,
                      particularly in Nablus, Tulkarm, and Jenin. PIJ
                      recently said that it has continued to enlist new
                      recruits to fight Israel in both Gaza and the West
                      Bank.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">In
                      reporting on the October 7 attacks against Israel,
                      PIJ is often unmentioned or described in passing
                      as another militant group that participated in
                      Operation Al-Aqsa Flood. By the group’s own
                      account, it was not involved with the planning of
                      the October 7 attacks but joined in immediately
                      that morning when the operations began. Skare said
                      that while PIJ may not have organized the attacks,
                      its militant posture of armed struggle as the only
                      solution against Israel may have played a role in
                      Hamas's decision to contemplate the large-scale,
                      decisive action. “Hamas had to balance on a
                      knife’s edge between being a provider of services,
                      a provider of governance in the Gaza Strip, and
                      maintaining its [role] as a resistance movement.
                      Islamic Jihad could continue stressing the need
                      for armed resistance, continue stressing the need
                      for a complete liberation without being encumbered
                      by the inconvenient responsibilities of
                      governance. And that always was troublesome for
                      Hamas,” he said. “I think the fact that Hamas
                      carried out October 7 was partly caused by the
                      fact that Hamas found itself in an impossible
                      situation.”</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Along
                      with Hamas, PIJ’s standing among Palestinians in
                      the occupied territories has risen significantly
                      since October. Its members have fought alongside
                      Qassam forces in the guerrilla war against
                      Israel’s occupation forces in Gaza, and it
                      regularly posts videos of its forces ambushing
                      Israeli tanks and soldiers.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">PIJ
                      continues to hold an unknown number of Israelis
                      taken on October 7—PIJ initially said it had 30
                      captives—and participated in the exchanges last
                      November during which 105 Israelis were freed in
                      exchange for hundreds of Palestinians held by
                      Israel. Along with Hamas, Palestinian Islamic
                      Jihad is a member of the Axis of Resistance, a
                      coalition that includes Iran, Syria, Ansar Allah
                      in Yemen, and several regional militant groups
                      that coordinate strategy in confronting Israel.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Below
                        is a full transcript of our in-depth interview.</strong></p>
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                        <figcaption class="image-caption"
style="box-sizing: content-box; color: #777777; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: -.15px; line-height: 20px; margin-top: 8px; padding-left: 15%; padding-right: 15%; text-align: center; width: 70%;">Mohammed
                          Al-Hindi speaks with Jeremy Scahill. Photo:
                          Jeremy Scahill.</figcaption></figure>
                    </div>
                    <h3 class="header-anchor-post"
style="-moz-appearance: optimizelegibility; -moz-osx-font-smoothing: antialiased; -webkit-appearance: optimizelegibility; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; appearance: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-family: 'SF Pro Display', -apple-system-headline, system-ui, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 1.375em; font-weight: bold; line-height: 1.16em; margin: 1em 0 0.625em 0; position: relative;">My
                      Interview With Mohammed Al-Hindi</h3>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> Dr. Mohammed Al-Hindi,
                        thank you for agreeing to do this interview.
                        It’s unusual for a Western reporter to be able
                        to interview one of the leaders of Palestinian
                        Islamic Jihad. Explain the political ideology
                        and objectives of the organization.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> In the name of God, the
                        merciful, the compassionate. First of all,
                        Islamic Jihad is generally perceived as a
                        fighting group. That impression, however, is not
                        accurate. In the early stages of its
                        establishment, our movement tried to develop its
                        own vision and understanding before engaging in
                        active fighting against Israel. A vision of the
                        political reality, understanding the Islamic
                        world, and the region’s history. So, it started
                        as an intellectual discussion before it took up
                        arms. Ultimately, however, its analysis was that
                        the project of establishing Israel was a Western
                        one. The West had its issues with the Jews. In
                        short, it could be said that antisemitism is a
                        European problem that did not exist in the East.
                        It was solved, however, at the expense of the
                        Palestinian people and the region. The Zionist
                        project is not about the Jews in the first
                        place. Rather, it is a Western colonization
                        project that aims to control the region and
                        preclude its independence and development.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">This
                      is the Zionist project at heart. We do not have
                      any problem with the Jews per se. Rather, our
                      problem is with Zionism as a racist movement which
                      was based on usurping our resources and homeland
                      and displacing us in 1948. This was the founding
                      political vision upon which Islamic Jihad movement
                      was established. Our vision relied on Islam which
                      constitutes the culture, history and faith of the
                      Palestinian people.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Based
                      on that vision and that understanding of the
                      political reality and Islamic history, the
                      movement was established. This debate started at
                      an early stage when we were students in Egyptian
                      universities in the mid-1970s. This vision was
                      translated, though, when we returned to the Gaza
                      Strip under the occupation. Since there was
                      occupation, it was imperative to have resistance.
                      So, the Islamic Jihad started to engage in
                      resistance in the early 1980s after we returned
                      from Egyptian universities.</p>
                    <div class="pullquote"
style="border-bottom: 1px solid #e6e6e6; border-top: 1px solid #e6e6e6; font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 32px auto;">
                      <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; font-style: italic; font-weight: 500; line-height: 26px; margin: 32px 0; text-align: center;">“The
                        Zionist project is not about the Jews in the
                        first place. Rather, it is a Western
                        colonization project that aims to control the
                        region and preclude its independence and
                        development.”</p>
                    </div>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">So,
                      the resistance emerged based on the presence of
                      the occupation. As a religious, Muslim people, we
                      base our resistance on our understanding, history
                      and faith. That’s why some identified Islamic
                      Jihad as standing somewhat in the middle between
                      Islamic extremism and the national movement, which
                      was based at the time on Fatah and the Palestinian
                      left. In brief, we are a national Palestinian
                      resistance movement which is rooted in our
                      people’s faith, culture and belief, namely Islam.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> When you say that
                        Palestinian Islamic Jihad is a national
                        resistance movement you're talking about armed
                        struggle.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> No, I’m talking about
                        the idea of Islamic Jihad.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> How do you define then
                        what a resistance group is in the context of
                        what you’ve said?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> As long as there is
                        occupation, there must be resistance. We started
                        our resistance in the presence of occupation
                        through the Nakba in 1948 and then in 1967 with
                        the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
                        We were conceived in the Gaza Strip and the
                        movement then expanded to the West Bank under
                        the occupation. The occupation was engaging in
                        practices which all the world could see. But
                        they were silent, unfortunately, because
                        ultimately the Zionist project is a Western one.
                        That’s why in 1987, in the First Intifada, under
                        then-Israeli Prime Minister Rabin, they used an
                        extremely oppressive policy which was the ‘bone
                        breaking’ policy against children involved in
                        the uprising. Quite literally, a soldier would
                        hold a child’s hand against a rock and then
                        break it with another rock. It was implemented
                        literally. So this violence used by Israel under
                        which we grew up, made it necessary to resist.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> But Palestinian Islamic
                        Jihad, for instance, does not run for elections.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>That’s not true. We do
                        take part in student elections in Palestinian
                        Universities. We take part in elections of
                        syndicates, all Palestinian syndicates: doctors,
                        teachers, lawyers, engineers. All syndicates.
                        Around 13 syndicates. And we have taken the
                        initiative in forming some other syndicates too.
                        This impression or perception, though, was
                        because we did not take part in the 2006
                        Palestinian legislative council elections.
                        Refraining from participation constitutes a form
                        of participation itself, a form of political
                        position. We have taken a position towards the
                        Oslo Accord, which at the national level has
                        conceded some basic principles in addition to
                        its being undemocratic as the Palestinian people
                        have not been consulted, nor were other members
                        of the PLO and its factions. This agreement was
                        reached behind the back of the Palestinian
                        people. So the position of the Islamic Jihad was
                        to boycott any arrangements or elections of an
                        authority emanating from this agreement. This is
                        a political position of its own right. We take
                        part in all other elections.</span></p>
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                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> What is the relationship
                        between Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hamas?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> First, in terms of the
                        founding principles, Islam constitutes the
                        faith, culture and history of our Palestinian
                        people. It is a faith for Muslims and a culture
                        for Christians. Both Hamas and Islamic Jihad use
                        the faith of our people and their culture in the
                        case of Christians as a point of departure. We
                        further agree with Hamas on some aspects of our
                        political vision in terms of the position
                        vis-à-vis the Oslo Accord and rejecting it and
                        in relation to the resistance imperative and
                        maintenance of Palestinian basic principles. On
                        the other hand, there are disagreements in
                        relation to our vision or some political issues
                        such as elections. We had a position, Hamas had
                        a different position, and so on. So in some
                        political issues, Islamic Jihad holds a
                        different position from Hamas. Our differences
                        were more pronounced in the past. With time,
                        however, the scope of disagreement between the
                        two movements started to diminish.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> I want to ask you about
                        the two-year period leading up to Operation
                        Al-Aqsa Flood. You had the 2021 Israeli bombing
                        campaign against Gaza. And then over the course
                        of the two years that followed, the Israelis
                        continued to target and assassinate leaders of
                        Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Maybe we could begin
                        by describing this period and how your movement
                        experienced Israel’s attacks from the end of
                        2021’s intense war until October 7, 2023. Also,
                        Palestinian Islamic Jihad was launching rocket
                        attacks against Israel and Hamas was largely
                        staying out of it or at least saying that they
                        were not directly participating. They were not
                        condemning Palestinian Islamic Jihad, but they
                        were saying that they weren’t participating in
                        it.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> First of all, Israel is
                        under the illusion that eliminating military or
                        political leaders of Palestinian resistance
                        movements would affect these movements. In the
                        two years you pointed out, Islamic Jihad was
                        exposed to a wave of assassinations, actually
                        three waves. So Islamic Jihad engaged in
                        defending the Palestinian people and responding
                        to those crimes committed against leaders in the
                        military structure Al-Quds Brigades. Hamas,
                        during those three confrontations, did not
                        intervene. But as you said it did not condemn
                        the Palestinian resistance and launching
                        rockets. As a matter of fact, it stood by the
                        Islamic Jihad in its political position stating
                        this was a normal response to the Zionist
                        crimes. Some, especially in Israel and some
                        regional media outlets tried to disgrace Hamas
                        for having abandoned the Islamic Jihad, saying
                        it could have helped fend off the Zionist
                        aggression on Gaza since it was in charge of its
                        administration. But let me clarify that Islamic
                        Jihad was capable of responding and persisting
                        in confronting Israel for a long time without
                        intervention. If it were not capable, we might
                        have blamed Hamas for not taking part, but
                        Islamic Jihad proved to be capable and Israel
                        was forced to engage in negotiations with the
                        Islamic Jihad movement in Cairo. I was leading
                        these negotiations with the Egyptians. We
                        reached an agreement. Those observing may not
                        use this episode to drive a wedge between Hamas
                        and Islamic Jihad. On the contrary, Islamic
                        Jihad understood Hamas’s position and decided we
                        can manage this battle on our own in the three
                        confrontations and we managed quite well.</span></p>
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                        <figcaption class="image-caption"
style="box-sizing: content-box; color: #777777; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: -.15px; line-height: 20px; margin-top: 8px; padding-left: 15%; padding-right: 15%; text-align: center; width: 70%;">Mohammed
                          al-Hindi (right) with Hamas spiritual leader
                          Sheikh Ahmed Yassin (center) and Hamas’s
                          Ismail Haniyeh (left) at a memorial in 2003
                          for assassinated Hamas leader Ismail Abu
                          Shanab. Photo: Mahmud Hams/AFP via Getty.</figcaption></figure>
                    </div>
                    <h3 class="header-anchor-post"
style="-moz-appearance: optimizelegibility; -moz-osx-font-smoothing: antialiased; -webkit-appearance: optimizelegibility; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; appearance: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-family: 'SF Pro Display', -apple-system-headline, system-ui, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 1.375em; font-weight: bold; line-height: 1.16em; margin: 1em 0 0.625em 0; position: relative;">The
                      October 7 Attacks</h3>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> How did Operation
                        Al-Aqsa Flood come into being? Who initiated the
                        idea for it? Did it come from Palestinian
                        Islamic Jihad or Hamas or was there a joint
                        committee that was assessing potential responses
                        to Israel or potential positives and negatives
                        of launching some sort of attack? I’m trying to
                        understand how this was organized.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> Hamas, or more
                        accurately, Al-Qassam, were getting prepared for
                        Al-Aqsa Flood and no one knew about it. A day
                        earlier, on October 6, we in Islamic Jihad had a
                        celebration of the anniversary of the Islamic
                        Jihad movement. Thousands took part in the
                        celebration and we were taken by surprise like
                        everybody else. However, very shortly after
                        learning about the Flood, we engaged in this
                        battle. It was our duty as a resistance movement
                        to confront the aggression immediately.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> Just to clarify: You’re
                        saying that Palestinian Islamic Jihad, even its
                        special forces, were not at all involved with
                        the planning of it until the morning of the
                        knocking down of the fences, the walls?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>Right.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> So once your forces
                        started entering the battle space, were you
                        surprised at how deep into Israeli areas of
                        control they were able to get, particularly on
                        the military bases?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>The whole world was
                        surprised! The Israeli military units just
                        evaporated.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> Once the operations were
                        under way, were the military commanders of
                        Palestinian Islamic Jihad able to give orders to
                        their men in the field? Given that they didn’t
                        participate in the planning, once your soldiers
                        were in battle did Islamic Jihad issue
                        guidelines for them or objectives? How were the
                        orders given then to the PIJ forces that
                        participated?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> At the beginning, the
                        [Al-Quds] military commanders of our movement
                        started to give orders to engage. So after a
                        short while, the Islamic Jihad’s Quds Brigades
                        took part in the battle and the confrontations
                        started. As a resistance movement, our duty was
                        to fight against occupation and against this
                        aggression. Whenever a battle erupts, Al-Quds
                        Brigades take up their role and engage.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> When you started
                        watching the initial media reports—some of the
                        first reports said two thousand people, mostly
                        civilians, were killed, though those numbers
                        were later reduced and it became clear a large
                        number of Israeli soldiers were also killed
                        along with civilians—what sort of response did
                        you expect from the Israeli state to these
                        operations?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> We know Israel was
                        built on lying and this was one more lie. We
                        recognized from the beginning that there was a
                        great deal of misleading information addressed
                        to the West. We expected, of course, that there
                        would be a strong response. However, over time,
                        these lies started to be exposed. The Israeli
                        response to October 7 was not governed by any
                        sort of laws. Neither military laws nor laws of
                        occupation nor any sort of laws. I believe with
                        time, more crimes that no one knows about until
                        now will be exposed. Especially in relation to
                        detainees who were arrested just outside Gaza
                        and many of whom were executed in the field.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill: </strong><span>What do you understand
                        as the direct objectives of the October 7
                        operations?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>First, this is another
                        episode of this conflict. It has erupted like
                        that, but it is another episode of a long,
                        bitter, and bloody conflict since 1948. By 1948,
                        we refer to the Nakba where enormous crimes were
                        committed. Around 500 Palestinian villages were
                        destroyed. The Palestinian people have been
                        fighting since 1948. You might know, or not,
                        that there is no Palestinian family that does
                        not have at least one martyr. All the fake news
                        that Israel fabricates to mislead the Western
                        world is obvious, but the West accepts and wants
                        it because they want to keep Israel as a control
                        and hegemony project in the region. What
                        happened on October 7 was an extension of those
                        crimes. It is also proof that the Palestinian
                        people cannot be destroyed. In short, Israel and
                        the United States wanted to completely end the
                        Palestinian cause, not only in Gaza but
                        everywhere.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Things
                      started to become clearer after the Abraham
                      Accords, which overlooked the rights of the
                      Palestinian people and aimed to arrange the region
                      along security terms by building security and
                      economic alliances in the region away from the
                      rights of the Palestinian people. Obviously, the
                      Palestinian people are not dead and it was
                      expected they would defend themselves and their
                      rights. Unless they receive their rights in full,
                      there would be nothing but more blood in the
                      region. It is against that context that we
                      understand Al-Aqsa Flood: not in the context of
                      October 7, rather in the context of 1948.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill: </strong><span>Do you have a sense as
                        to why this specific day was chosen for those
                        operations?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>This is an issue that
                        was at the discretion of Al-Qassam. But I could
                        say that Gaza has been under blockade for 17
                        years. There are crimes being committed in the
                        West Bank and Gaza. There is a regional
                        political setting in which a new enemy is being
                        invented for the region away from the Zionist
                        enemy. This is the context in which we
                        understand this. So a fighting group makes its
                        arrangements and takes its decision and makes
                        the judgment on the appropriate conditions.
                        Undoubtedly, the conditions were indeed
                        appropriate.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill: </strong><span>I want to ask you about
                        the taking of civilian captives on October 7.
                        Hamas officials have told me that their forces
                        did not have any orders to take women who were
                        not soldiers or children back to Gaza as
                        captives. Hamas has told me that essentially
                        when the fence and the wall encircling Gaza was
                        broken down and the second and third wave of
                        people came in—this included ordinary people or
                        people that were not officially involved in the
                        operation—that they started taking Israeli
                        civilians back to Gaza and then Hamas had to
                        essentially find these people and offered to
                        return them to Israel. What is your
                        understanding of the civilians taken to Gaza?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> Hamas already declared
                        that. In Islamic Jihad, we had a boy and an
                        elderly lady. We issued a statement at an early
                        stage saying we wanted to release them both,
                        without anything in exchange, should the
                        security conditions be available. This was
                        publicly stated and filmed at the time. So, yes,
                        this issue was there, especially that children,
                        women, and elderly people were taken in by
                        mistake. We declared our position, and you may
                        go back to the records. We said we have these
                        people in our custody, and they appeared in a
                        video, the young boy and elderly lady, and we
                        were ready to let them go just like that should
                        the security conditions allow for it. They were
                        then released within the first deal.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill: </strong><span>How do you think
                        history is going to see the events of October 7
                        and the months that have unfolded since?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>A huge strategic
                        failure for Israel on October 7 at all levels:
                        the political, military, and intelligence. It
                        was also a failure for the protectors of Israel.
                        The nine months that followed were just more
                        failure because they committed crimes against
                        civilians, destroyed Gaza, employed the
                        starvation policy. All those add to the military
                        and moral failure. Israel’s image has been
                        damaged. The image of victimization which it
                        sold to the world for years is over. It has
                        become a wanted criminal. So, Israel has lost at
                        the level of its image and narrative and at the
                        moral level. Further, the army has not achieved
                        any of its objectives and has been exhausted. So
                        those successive months have only been more
                        failure at all levels: military, political,
                        moral, and in terms of Israel’s image.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> You’re the chief
                        political negotiator for Palestinian Islamic
                        Jihad. Are you directly participating in the
                        negotiations over a ceasefire or ending the
                        siege on Gaza?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> I would like to make
                        one thing clear. In these negotiations, we as
                        resistance factions have mandated Hamas to lead
                        the negotiations. We agreed that Hamas would
                        manage the negotiations for various reasons. We
                        are reassured that Hamas will not yield in these
                        negotiations because it is more in the
                        crosshairs than Islamic Jihad.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">So,
                      papers are put forward in those negotiations, be
                      it from Israel, the U.S., or others. Hamas
                      presents those papers to us, and we discuss them
                      and offer feedback. Based on this, Hamas responds.
                      So, the response is not that of Hamas but of the
                      resistance and its factions.</p>
                    <div class="pullquote"
style="border-bottom: 1px solid #e6e6e6; border-top: 1px solid #e6e6e6; font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 32px auto;">
                      <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; font-style: italic; font-weight: 500; line-height: 26px; margin: 32px 0; text-align: center;">“We
                        realized that Netanyahu was trying to create a
                        fracture between Hamas and Islamic Jihad and we
                        did not give him that chance.”</p>
                    </div>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Hamas
                      is the chief negotiator mandated by the resistance
                      factions. It discusses the proposals made with the
                      resistance factions and provides a response that
                      is a reflection of the resistance factions’ view.
                      Hamas is mandated and authorized to negotiate on
                      behalf of the factions.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">The
                      other point is that Israel has tried to drive a
                      wedge among resistance factions in terms of the
                      negotiations. Netanyahu has personally asked the
                      UN representative to meet him in Jerusalem around
                      four months ago. Netanyahu and his negotiations
                      team asked him to go to Lebanon and meet the
                      Islamic Jihad to convey a message saying that
                      Netanyahu was ready to engage in direct
                      negotiations with Islamic Jihad and that he would
                      be lenient in reaching an agreement with them on
                      prisoners exchange.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">It
                      was around three months ago, the UN representative
                      came to meet one of our brothers in Lebanon, an
                      Islamic Jihad official, and he delivered
                      Netanyahu’s message. We realized that Netanyahu
                      was trying to create a fracture between Hamas and
                      Islamic Jihad, and we did not give him that
                      chance. We announced this at the time, but we did
                      not try to make a big fuss about it. We talked
                      about it in a Lebanese newspaper, Al-Akhbar. Some
                      Israeli papers talked about this issue the day
                      after. Some regional powers also tried to invite
                      Islamic Jihad to meetings and discussions, but we
                      kept that door shut, too. I mean to have a
                      delegation and make visits, but we realized that
                      they were trying to initiate individual
                      negotiations, so we just turned these proposals
                      down.</p>
                    <div class="captioned-image-container-static"
style="font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 32px auto;">
                      <figure style="margin: 0 auto; width: 100%;">
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                          style="mso-padding-alt: 1em 0 1.6em;"
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                          <tbody>
                            <tr>
                              <td style="text-align: center;"><br>
                              </td>
                              <td class="content"
                                style="text-align: center;" width="1200"
                                align="left"><a class="image-link"
                                  target="_blank"
href="https://substack.com/redirect/75c35872-0ccd-4494-92dd-775bcc9048de?j=eyJ1IjoibHZwcGIifQ.9RIwWbE6EVIB7Jy8lfazxZKfps8R18neRGMKwOiqnRM"
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data-attrs="{"src":"https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/809a77ff-e119-4a8b-b8fd-3d969da4bac3_2048x1118.jpeg","srcNoWatermark":null,"fullscreen":false,"imageSize":"large","height":795,"width":1456,"resizeWidth":1200,"bytes":196669,"alt":null,"title":null,"type":"image/jpeg","href":null,"belowTheFold":true,"topImage":false,"internalRedirect":null}"
                                    alt="" class="wide-image"
src="https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_2400,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F809a77ff-e119-4a8b-b8fd-3d969da4bac3_2048x1118.jpeg"
style="-ms-interpolation-mode: bicubic; border: none !important; display: block; height: auto; margin: 0 auto; margin-bottom: 0; max-width: 100% !important; vertical-align: middle; width: auto !important;"
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                                    height="300.3090659340659"></a></td>
                              <td style="text-align: center;"><br>
                              </td>
                            </tr>
                          </tbody>
                        </table>
                        <figcaption class="image-caption"
style="box-sizing: content-box; color: #777777; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: -.15px; line-height: 20px; margin-top: 8px; padding-left: 15%; padding-right: 15%; text-align: center; width: 70%;">Screenshot
                          from an Al Quds video of a parade in Gaza City
                          marking the 36th anniversary of the founding
                          of Palestinian Islamic Jihad, October 4, 2023.</figcaption></figure>
                    </div>
                    <h3 class="header-anchor-post"
style="-moz-appearance: optimizelegibility; -moz-osx-font-smoothing: antialiased; -webkit-appearance: optimizelegibility; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; appearance: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-family: 'SF Pro Display', -apple-system-headline, system-ui, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 1.375em; font-weight: bold; line-height: 1.16em; margin: 1em 0 0.625em 0; position: relative;">One
                      State, Two States, or Perpetual State of War?</h3>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill: </strong><span>You also have forces in
                        other areas of Palestine, in the occupied West
                        Bank and elsewhere, and I’m wondering why there
                        weren’t then coordinated uprisings in other
                        areas beyond Gaza in the immediate aftermath of
                        October 7. I’m wondering if that was a strategic
                        decision or if the leadership of Islamic Jihad
                        held their forces back. I’m trying to understand
                        why this operation did not spread to other areas
                        of Palestine.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>In the West Bank, the
                        resistance is present and escalating and the
                        Islamic Jihad takes part in it or even takes the
                        lead in it. There are arrests in the West Bank
                        on a daily basis. Not a day passes by without
                        arrests and other crimes being committed. There
                        have been more than 500 martyrs in the West Bank
                        since October 7 and around 10,000 detainees in
                        addition to thousands of wounded people. So the
                        West Bank is indeed taking part. However, due to
                        the magnitude of crimes committed in Gaza, this
                        does not feature much on the media.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Internationally,
                      there are also other open fronts in Lebanon and in
                      the Red Sea in Yemen. Their fronts are backing the
                      Gaza front. They have decided that the battle on
                      those fronts will not end until the aggression on
                      the Gaza Strip stops. The Islamic Jihad is present
                      in Lebanon, given there are refugee camps in
                      Lebanon and it is part of this confrontation in
                      Lebanon. However, it is Hezbollah that constitutes
                      the main part of this front.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> Do you think the
                        conditions are present for a full intifada at
                        this point?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>I believe the
                        political horizon in the West Bank is blocked.
                        We have an extremist government in Israel which
                        does not believe—the program of the members or
                        components of the government is publicly known.
                        When [Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel] Smotrich
                        talks about the options for Palestinians being
                        either to completely surrender and work as
                        wageworkers for Israel, to be displaced, or to
                        be killed. This is what they call the resolve
                        program. It is a declared program. And he is a
                        fundamental part of this Zionist government.
                        [Israeli National Security Minister Itamar]
                        Ben-Gvir also has a similar program. So the
                        political horizon for a Palestinian state is
                        blocked and the Palestinian people know it. On
                        the other hand, the magnitude of crimes Israel
                        is committing in the Gaza Strip have shown they
                        could not come from a state which claims to be
                        the oasis of democracy in the region nor an army
                        governed by laws and rules. Rather, it is a gang
                        of murderers and criminals killing civilians,
                        women, and children, whose leaders are being
                        prosecuted in international courts for war
                        crimes. So, the blocked horizon and the
                        magnitude of these crimes leads precisely to an
                        intifada. </span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">The
                      form the intifada is currently taking in the West
                      Bank involves little popular participation due to
                      the huge security crackdown by Israel. As I
                      mentioned, there are more than 10,000 detainees in
                      the enemy’s prisons. Also, the operations have not
                      ceased. These people are not without families,
                      supporters, organizations; the same goes for
                      detainees. This magnitude paves the way for a big
                      popular uprising in the near future hopefully.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">I
                      would like to add that there is no Hamas in the
                      West Bank nor is there an October 7. What is there
                      in the West Bank is Oslo. Nonetheless, assaults by
                      settlers in the West Bank are commonplace.
                      Thousands of settlers are being armed away from
                      any formal structures even the Zionist army and
                      police. These are Ben-Gvir’s militias. The crimes
                      being perpetrated in the West Bank are
                      unprecedented. The settlements that are being
                      built today and recognized are arbitrary settler
                      clusters which even radical Israeli governments
                      had refused to recognize. Nonetheless, they are
                      being legalized now.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Palestinians
                      in Gaza are killed. In the West Bank, however,
                      they lose their lands which are turned into
                      settlements and lose their livelihoods. That’s why
                      the situation in the West Bank will explode, and I
                      believe it is going to be a big bloody conflict.
                      The West is now turning a blind eye and talking
                      about Gaza and the administration of Gaza, but
                      Israel and Netanyahu refuse even the presence of
                      the Palestinian Authority in Gaza. He is trying to
                      come up with alternatives away from the
                      Palestinian Authority, which is working in the
                      West Bank in accordance with the Oslo Accord,
                      restricting itself by the so-called “security
                      coordination.” Hence, the horizon is completely
                      blocked. The conflict in the West Bank is going to
                      be bloody. Then the West would turn and say,
                      “two-state solution.” But that’s nonsense because
                      what we see on the ground is more relevant than
                      the statements we hear and which have no value.</p>
                    <div class="pullquote"
style="border-bottom: 1px solid #e6e6e6; border-top: 1px solid #e6e6e6; font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 32px auto;">
                      <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; font-style: italic; font-weight: 500; line-height: 26px; margin: 32px 0; text-align: center;">“The
                        situation in the West Bank will explode, and I
                        believe it is going to be a big bloody
                        conflict.”</p>
                    </div>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> The most cliché question
                        any reporter asks any Palestinian is, “What do
                        you think about the two-state solution?” But
                        that is what is being pushed by the Biden
                        administration. When I’ve interviewed officials
                        from Hamas, they say that if the democratic will
                        of the Palestinian people was to establish a
                        state along the 1967 borders, Hamas would not
                        stand in the way of this. What is the position
                        of Palestinian Islamic Jihad on this?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> This is not a realistic
                        question. It is not as though anything depends
                        on this question. Yasser Arafat signed the Oslo
                        Accords and accepted the two-state solution and
                        he was the head of the PLO; he signed on its
                        behalf. Thirty-one years later, the lands on
                        which the Palestinian state was supposed to be
                        established have become the second Israel. They
                        have become a state for settlers. It seems that
                        a two-state solution was about the first state
                        of Israel of 1948 and the second Israel in 1967.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Even
                      Gaza has been under a suffocating blockade for 17
                      years because no one wants Gaza, this narrow strip
                      of land on which 2.5 million Palestinians live. So
                      with the question of the two-state solution, the
                      West asks, “What is Hamas’s position on the
                      two-state solution?” But Yasser Arafat had already
                      signed off on the two-state solution 31 years ago,
                      and it was for nothing. Some journalists ask about
                      the position of Islamic Jihad of a two-state
                      solution, but no one asks the Israeli parties who
                      constitute the government and are members in the
                      Knesset and who are calling for eliminating the
                      Palestinian cause and displacing the Palestinian
                      people in whole, calling for a transfer while
                      being in the Zionist decision-making position. So,
                      we object to putting the Palestinian people to a
                      test by asking, “What is the position of the
                      factions on the two-state solution?” This is not
                      logical.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">On
                      the other hand, Hamas is sometimes forced to
                      answer this question because it is administering
                      the Gaza Strip and everybody wants to ask Hamas,
                      “What if it were the wish of the Palestinian
                      people?” But Israel refuses that solution, objects
                      to it and resists it. It is building a state on
                      the lands that were supposed to become the lands
                      of the Palestinian state. Now some propose a
                      one-state solution. If they are really keen on
                      democracy, there is a Palestinian population in
                      the occupied lands across historic Palestine. What
                      about state governance? Why doesn’t anyone ask
                      about one state where all citizens enjoy the same
                      rights?</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">So
                      as a matter of principle, I believe we are in a
                      national liberation stage which requires
                      resistance. When there is a partner willing to
                      solve the Palestinian issue, whether in Israel or
                      the West, especially the United States, only then
                      they can talk. Now, however, talking of a
                      two-state solution offers the Palestinian people
                      mere illusions as though the U.S. administration
                      and the West are keen on the two-state solution.
                      The American wizard has just pulled this out from
                      their pocket to throw it against Al-Aqsa Flood.
                      That’s all! They are even talking about a renewed
                      authority, not even about the Palestinian
                      Authority which is the partner in the two-state
                      solution. They are talking about a new authority
                      and no one even knows what that is. Nonetheless,
                      Israel refuses that proposal. It says the Israeli
                      army will re-occupy the Gaza Strip, but because of
                      the security concerns and the heavy cost of such
                      return, Israel wants to find some sort of agents
                      in the administration of Gaza and when they fail,
                      then [Secretary of State Antony] Blinken for
                      example would make a statement saying we don’t
                      accept occupation, we don’t accept that Hamas
                      manages Gaza, we don’t accept chaos. Tell us
                      please, what is the alternative? Make a proposal.
                      So the problem is not with the Palestinian people
                      nor with Palestinian factions to answer this
                      question. The problem is basically that Israel
                      does not want to give us any of our rights and the
                      American administration sponsors this Israeli
                      position and does not dare, for many reasons, to
                      face this blocked horizon. </p>
                    <div class="pullquote"
style="border-bottom: 1px solid #e6e6e6; border-top: 1px solid #e6e6e6; font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 32px auto;">
                      <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; font-style: italic; font-weight: 500; line-height: 26px; margin: 32px 0; text-align: center;">“Blinken
                        for example would make a statement saying we
                        don’t accept occupation, we don’t accept that
                        Hamas manages Gaza, we don’t accept chaos. Tell
                        us please, what is the alternative? Make a
                        proposal.”</p>
                    </div>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Our
                      problem lies in the injustice inflicted upon us,
                      the aggression against us. Our problem is not with
                      the Jews, not with the Americans. It is injustice.
                      So, if Netanyahu stood on the highest minaret in
                      Palestine, or the minaret of Al-Aqsa Mosque and
                      embraced Islam, the problem would not be over. Our
                      problem with Netanyahu and Israel is because they
                      occupied our land, killed our people, and they are
                      engaging in aggression against us. Even if he
                      embraced Islam, the problem would still be there.
                      The Americans must understand this.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> What would an acceptable
                        resolution look like from your perspective?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> Look, let’s agree on
                        some basic rules. After 76 years, the
                        Palestinian people have not given in, and they
                        started Al-Aqsa Flood. Israel is governed by an
                        unprecedented radical government that believes
                        only in ending the conflict with a resolve that
                        is full of racism and grudge. This puts things
                        at an unreconcilable position.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">For
                      us as Palestinians, and I’m not talking about a
                      resistance group, Islamic Jihad or Hamas, unless
                      we achieve our rights, there will be no stability
                      in the region. The whole world is shifting. There
                      are ongoing international conflicts which affect
                      the Palestinian issue and are affected by it. The
                      region is also changing. The region today is not
                      what it was ten years ago when it seemed the Arabs
                      had turned their backs on the Palestinian people
                      and the whole thing was over. It is clear now that
                      there are back up fronts supporting the
                      Palestinian cause. The internal Palestinian
                      setting is also shifting.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">After
                      more than 30 years, Oslo is over. The Palestinian
                      Authority is now being used as a security tool. It
                      is clear that the constituency of Fatah is also
                      engaging in the confrontation against Israel and
                      is not content with the position of the
                      [Palestinian] Authority. The Palestinian
                      resistance in Gaza has persevered in Gaza for nine
                      months and is still in good shape and ready to
                      persist in a way no one could expect. All those
                      changes must be taken into account when talking
                      about the Palestinian cause. The rights of the
                      Palestinian people at the bare minimum which was
                      agreed upon involved a state in the West Bank and
                      Gaza Strip. This is the minimum which the
                      Palestinian people could accept as a first stage.
                      We are not against Jews living amongst us in the
                      region, but they can’t dominate, take control, and
                      lead the region and arrange it on security terms
                      in accordance with their interests and those of
                      their allies. This region has its people who have
                      rights which they will not give up.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Time
                      is in favor of the Palestinian people, despite all
                      the pain we experience. All those illusions in the
                      minds of Israeli leaders are shattering before the
                      new reality in the region and the world.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> Do you believe that Jews
                        who emigrated from Europe or the United States
                        or Australia or South Africa have a right to
                        live in that state?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>We don’t have a
                        problem with them if they were not conspiring,
                        engaging in aggression, inflicting injustice,
                        controlling the region. We don’t have a problem
                        otherwise.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> What purpose do Mahmoud
                        Abbas and the Palestinian Authority serve right
                        now?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> Mahmoud Abbas has a
                        vision and a project which were translated into
                        the Oslo Accord. Now, 31 years on, the vision of
                        Mahmoud Abbas and the Palestinian Authority is
                        evaporating. They’ve become completely
                        irrelevant whether for political partnership
                        with Israel or for the resistance. So this whole
                        project is coming to its long-expected end. I
                        believe the PA’s project is disintegrating over
                        time.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">First,
                      it has not yielded the bare minimum expectations
                      it was built upon. Second, Israel is only dealing
                      with it temporarily to manage the situation in the
                      West Bank while it has no true sovereignty
                      whatsoever, even in Area B. In Area A, too, there
                      is no real sovereignty whatsoever. Israel enters
                      those areas whenever it wants, arrests whoever it
                      wants in Area A. So with time, I believe any
                      opinion poll in the West Bank will find that most
                      Palestinian people are with the resistance, not
                      with the PA. So the Oslo project was basically
                      what Yasser Arafat and then Mahmoud Abbas hoped
                      would evolve into a state in the West Bank and
                      Gaza Strip. Israel, however, wanted it to be a
                      tool to manage the Palestinian people so it would
                      be an easy, uncostly occupation. The balance of
                      power helped Israel achieve that goal, achieve its
                      vision of this agreement. On the ground, it
                      stripped the PA of any sovereignty and rendered it
                      into a tool to manage Palestinian communities.
                      Then it built that separation wall which devoured
                      large swathes of the West Bank, built these
                      settlements, Judaized Jerusalem. Thus, the PA
                      project is almost over.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> Would it be better for
                        the Palestinian people if there was no PA? What
                        would replace it?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>The alternative would
                        be an internal Palestinian agreement. There are
                        fundamental Palestinian powers which did not
                        exist when the PLO was built. Hamas and Islamic
                        Jihad are not in the PLO despite being primary
                        active powers on the ground. The PLO comprises
                        factions. Fatah, as a faction, is present and
                        has its impact and constituency. But most other
                        factions are marginal factions with no
                        significant presence. Internal Palestinian
                        arrangements must now be built on the realities
                        and the actors on the ground rather than on the
                        situation back in the 1960s and 1970s.
                        Therefore, rebuilding the PLO is, in my opinion,
                        the best way to approach rearranging the
                        internal Palestinian structure.</span></p>
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                            is part 3 in my series covering armed
                            Palestinian groups’ perspectives on the war
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                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> If the negotiations
                        between Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad and
                        the Israelis result in the freeing of Marwan
                        Barghouti, would you support his candidacy to
                        become president of an independent
                        internationally recognized Palestine? </span><em>[Note:
                        Barghouti is a Palestinian resistance leader
                        imprisoned by Israel since 2002. While he is a
                        member of the ruling Fatah party, he was a vocal
                        critic of the Oslo agreement, and Hamas and PIJ
                        have consistently demanded his freedom.
                        Sometimes referred to as the Palestinian Nelson
                        Mandela, he is widely viewed as the most popular
                        choice among Palestinians to be a future
                        president of an independent state.]</em></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>It is premature to
                        say. First, there is the issue of releasing
                        Marwan Barghouti. Of course, we demand releasing
                        all Palestinian prisoners including leaders of
                        the Palestinian resistance, Marwan Barghouti,
                        all of them. The question of running for
                        president later is something for Fatah to
                        decide. Barghouti is a leader of Fatah and if
                        they nominate him, then this can be discussed.
                        So Islamic Jihad or Hamas, just for being the
                        reason for his release will not support or
                        otherwise oppose him. It is for Fatah to
                        nominate him, and then we look into all the
                        candidates and we reach certain agreements. So
                        this is quite premature. But I can say that in
                        Islamic Jihad, we are keen on having a solid,
                        strong, and cohesive Fatah that is internally
                        unified.</span></p>
                    <h1 class="header-anchor-post"
style="-moz-appearance: optimizelegibility; -moz-osx-font-smoothing: antialiased; -webkit-appearance: optimizelegibility; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; appearance: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-family: 'SF Pro Display', -apple-system-headline, system-ui, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 2em; font-weight: bold; line-height: 1.16em; margin: 1em 0 0.625em 0; position: relative;">The
                      Axis of Resistance</h1>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill: </strong><span>In the broader news
                        media there is a lot of reporting that asserts
                        that Palestinian Islamic Jihad is supported
                        quite significantly by Iran, and I wanted to ask
                        you about the relationship with Iran and if
                        these reports are true that there is military
                        and financial support being given by Tehran to
                        Palestinian Islamic Jihad?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>We are a Palestinian
                        resistance movement. Our struggle started before
                        the Iranian Revolution. The struggle of the
                        Palestinian people has been ongoing for 76
                        years. We are grateful and appreciate all those
                        who stand by our side. Now, Iran stands by the
                        Palestinian people and the Palestinian
                        resistance. It supports the Palestinian people
                        and resistance with all that the Palestinian
                        people may need. This is declared and obvious
                        for everyone. It is no secret. The Islamic Jihad
                        movement started in terms of discussion and
                        internal dialogue before the 1979 revolution. We
                        started in the mid-1970s. We started resistance
                        in the early 1980s before having any relations
                        with the Islamic Republic. We were in occupation
                        prisons in the Gaza Strip and we did not know
                        anyone from Iran. We started because we had our
                        vision and understanding of history and politics
                        in the region. So we fulfilled our duty. Now,
                        Iran comes and supports us. We appreciate this
                        support. Especially at a time when the Arabs
                        abandon us, go to Israel and reach agreements
                        with it.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">When
                      it comes to Iran, the big fuss in the Western
                      media and even in the region was caused by Israel
                      who is trying to say, in the context of
                      normalization with the Arabs, that there is a new
                      enemy for the Arabs in the region while Israel is
                      becoming an ally rather than an enemy. This is the
                      context within which the Iranian role is discussed
                      and the Iranian support for the resistance which
                      Israel and part of the West designate as
                      terrorist. Therefore, it invented that enemy
                      suggesting that the region has Israel, who is an
                      ally to Sunni states in the region, and there are
                      agreements and peace deals being reached while
                      there is an enemy that constitutes a threat to
                      everyone, both the Sunni states and Israel. This
                      enemy is Iran which is supporting ‘terrorist
                      movements’ in the region, namely the Palestinian
                      resistance. Israel is thus trying to invade the
                      whole region as such. However, Iran is not a
                      transient state.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">If
                      we look at the populations inhabiting this region
                      for thousands of years, we see Arabs, Persians,
                      and Turks. Iran is nothing new. It is a recognized
                      state in the region and has its interests. Arabs
                      and non-Arabs recognize these interests. It is a
                      state that cannot be overlooked in the region.
                      Israel is the transient state. That’s why it is
                      trying to change the equation. These accusations
                      are leveled at the Islamic Jihad or Hamas or the
                      Palestinian resistance suggesting they follow
                      Iranian commands or as though they are part of
                      this alliance deemed as “devilish” against Western
                      and world interests.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill: </strong><span>Is it true that there
                        is a command center of sorts where the
                        factions—whether it’s Iran or the Islamic
                        resistance in Iraq or the Houthis in Yemen,
                        Hezbollah, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad—is
                        there an official agreement on coordination in
                        resistance?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> Whether there is or
                        there is not is not a matter of media
                        discussion. There is resistance engaged in a
                        battle right now, a confrontation. There are
                        back up fronts. That’s all that can be said on
                        this matter. This is what is publicly known and
                        declared. I have nothing to say.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill: </strong><span>What’s your current
                        political analysis of what might happen in
                        Lebanon? It seems as though the Israelis want at
                        least to engage in some form of more intense
                        warfare against Lebanon, against Hezbollah. The
                        Biden administration has indicated it would
                        support Israel in such a war.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> Hezbollah declared they
                        opened a backup front since October 8 and that
                        confrontations on this front will not stop
                        unless the aggression on Gaza stops. Now, Israel
                        is threatening to expand the war and some
                        hardline voices in the Israeli government are
                        calling for a full-fledged war in south Lebanon.
                        But I believe it is unlikely. First of all,
                        Israel is exhausted; its army is exhausted in
                        the Gaza Strip. For nine months so far, they
                        have not been able to resolve anything or
                        achieve any of its declared goals. It is sinking
                        in the Gaza quicksand. Despite all the violence
                        and massacres, Israel’s options in Gaza now are
                        hard. Be it staying in Gaza, or having a partial
                        withdrawal and redeployment and maintaining the
                        Philadelphi Corridor or Netzarim Corridor, or
                        complete withdrawal. Israel is unable to resolve
                        any of its problems in Gaza. So, how can it take
                        an exhausted army to a war in south Lebanon?
                        They know Hezbollah has multiple times the
                        capabilities of the resistance in Gaza.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">It
                      also knows that Hezbollah territory is not like
                      Gaza, i.e., open like a football field. The
                      topography is quite different. The front in
                      Lebanon, also, is not closed like Gaza but could
                      be said to extend from the Mediterranean to the
                      Caspian Sea.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">On
                      the other hand, what targets does Israel have in
                      Lebanon? Are there military targets or economic
                      facilities of Hezbollah for Israel to target?
                      Israel might destroy the southern suburb of Beirut
                      in terms of buildings. But what targets are there
                      in Lebanon? None. In Israel, there are hundreds,
                      perhaps thousands, of military and economic
                      targets for Hezbollah. They have published some
                      such targets around two weeks ago. The targets
                      were filmed and published.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Further,
                      is the decision to wage a war on Lebanon a purely
                      Israeli decision? Or does it need an American
                      approval or greenlight in a decision which could
                      drag the region into a regional war which may be
                      hard to contain? The Americans are not in a
                      position now to allow for a war that may expand
                      into a regional war at such critical times with
                      the upcoming elections, the war in Ukraine, and
                      other issues. That’s why I believe all Israeli
                      threats, particularly by Netanyahu and his
                      minister Gallant, are just empty words.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill:</strong><span> Do you feel betrayed by
                        the Arab nations in general in this situation
                        post-October 7? Do you think the approach to the
                        Abraham Accords and the other negotiations that
                        the U.S. is engaged in to try to normalize
                        relations between Israel and Arab nation states
                        represents a betrayal of the Palestinian cause?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi:</strong><span> Since the beginning of
                        the normalization agreements, the Abraham
                        Accords, it was clear that the Arabs have
                        abandoned their previously held position adopted
                        in the Arab Summit in Beirut in 2002, which
                        talks about willingness to normalize relations
                        with Israel only when the Palestinian issue is
                        addressed through the two-state solution. Then
                        they made this leap in the Abraham Accords,
                        namely normalization; they had made up their
                        minds. However, now we have October 7. What was
                        before October 7 is different from what comes
                        after, including for the regimes which have
                        normalized relations with Israel.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">The
                      vision of these regimes depends on the outcome of
                      this war. So, everybody is waiting to see what
                      this confrontation in Gaza will bring. It is clear
                      that Israel has not achieved any of its goals so
                      far and will emerge in a different light, not the
                      light in which it was seen when it signed the
                      Abraham Accords. In the Abraham Accords, it was
                      regarded as a strong state that can replace the
                      U.S. when it gradually withdraws from the region
                      to southeast Asia for its confrontations with
                      China and the Russians. Israel would take the lead
                      in the region. This perception has now changed.
                      And based on the outcome of the battle in Gaza, it
                      is clear things will continue to be different from
                      before.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Of
                      course, we will not see quick and clear results at
                      the beginning, but these are states who have
                      interests. I expect these states would, in the
                      medium term or sooner, start to act based on the
                      rules upon which the region would be built after
                      October 7.</p>
                    <h1 class="header-anchor-post"
style="-moz-appearance: optimizelegibility; -moz-osx-font-smoothing: antialiased; -webkit-appearance: optimizelegibility; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; appearance: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-family: 'SF Pro Display', -apple-system-headline, system-ui, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 2em; font-weight: bold; line-height: 1.16em; margin: 1em 0 0.625em 0; position: relative;">How
                      Does the Palestinian Resistance View Biden vs.
                      Trump?</h1>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill: </strong><span>I’ve reviewed your
                        history going back to the 1980s, and you’ve been
                        been in this struggle through many U.S.
                        administrations. What is Joe Biden’s place in
                        history?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>We kind of miss Trump
                        now, his debates and statements. President Biden
                        is not to be seen as one person, but he
                        represents the Democratic Party which has a
                        clear policy. He is an expert. President Biden
                        is not a newcomer to politics. He is an expert
                        with extensive experience. He spent a lifetime
                        working in politics as a senator,
                        vice-president, etc. He is a veteran
                        [politician]. He represents the Democratic Party
                        quite well. He has a grasp of balances in the
                        international arena. He made a mistake,
                        probably, when he led the battle by coming to
                        Israel and attending the first cabinet of war.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">I
                      believe his calculations failed him in this
                      regard. Netanyahu, who has a long experience in
                      dealing with the various administrations,
                      especially during elections, was the winner in
                      this case with Biden’s blunt involvement in the
                      war. Netanyahu went to the Congress during the
                      Obama administration. He has prior experience. He
                      is going to go there now, too. It is clear he will
                      try to linger in Gaza until the U.S. elections, in
                      one way or another, in the hope things will be
                      resolved if Trump wins the elections.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">The
                      U.S. administration is restricted, be it Democrats
                      or Republicans. They are bound by internal
                      affairs, lobbies, capitalists, businesspeople.
                      U.S. elections are affected by all those factors.
                      Quite frankly, we don’t count much on the outcome
                      of those elections.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">At
                      the grassroots level in the American society, at
                      the level of the youth, there are genuine shifts
                      and many free and humane voices that are spreading
                      in universities. Even the American officer who
                      torched himself—we would build a monument for him
                      not just in Gaza but in our hearts. These are
                      quite strong manifestations. However, these free
                      and humane moves would not translate—and we do not
                      expect them to translate—into policies which would
                      govern the U.S. administration.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill: </strong><span>I’m wondering if you
                        think the situation for Palestinians would be
                        better if Trump won instead of Biden?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>I believe this depends
                        on how things evolve on certain issues. Trump,
                        at the end of the day, just like Biden, would be
                        looking after American interests. So,
                        developments in the region, developments in the
                        world, the war in Ukraine, tensions with China,
                        all those are factors that influence any
                        American president, Democrat or Republican. I
                        believe the world is shifting, the region is
                        changing, the Palestinian people are moving, the
                        Palestinian resistance has proven that it is not
                        a player that can be overlooked. There are
                        existing regional powers that support the
                        Palestinian people. All of this must be taken
                        into account. The ongoing war in Ukraine, its
                        outcomes and trends, the rules it instills, the
                        conflict with China, all these issues will
                        affect the approach adopted by Trump or any
                        Democrat president, be it Biden, if he continues
                        as a candidate, or any other Democrat candidate.
                        We prefer to have a candidate other than Biden,
                        though.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">Israel’s
                      strategic weight in the region has undoubtedly
                      been affected. How would regional states, allies
                      of the U.S., look at Israel now after this failure
                      on October 7 and for over nine months? This is
                      important. How would the world regard Israel as
                      well? In the eyes of the world and the region,
                      would Israel, who have failed so miserably before
                      Gaza, be a reliable ally to be trusted with
                      protecting the region and securing its security
                      and political and economic future? So, any future
                      president will find those changes on the table and
                      they cannot be disregarded. Especially if he is a
                      businessman like Trump.</p>
                    <div class="pullquote"
style="border-bottom: 1px solid #e6e6e6; border-top: 1px solid #e6e6e6; font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 32px auto;">
                      <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; font-style: italic; font-weight: 500; line-height: 26px; margin: 32px 0; text-align: center;">“Trump,
                        at the end of the day, just like Biden, would be
                        looking after American interests. … We prefer to
                        have a candidate other than Biden, though.”</p>
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                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">The
                      UN Secretary General spoke in honest, human and
                      strong terms and exposed Israel. The ICJ and ICC
                      are rightly prosecuting Israel. Yet we are
                      concerned that all the resonance of these crimes
                      would fade away and cool down with time. That is
                      why it is very important for us that the U.S.,
                      especially the new generation, would maintain this
                      relationship, which is not about Palestine alone.
                      Rather, Palestine has become a symbol of resisting
                      injustice, imperialism, and encroachment on
                      humanity at large. These are crimes unprecedented
                      in human history being broadcast for the first
                      time on air around the clock.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">I
                      would like to stress one more time, there are some
                      Jewish voices, especially in the United States,
                      who are better than some Arabs and Muslims.
                      Zionism is an idea and a policy. One might find
                      Arabs or Muslims who are Zionist, too. Just like
                      there are Christian and Jewish Zionists, there are
                      Muslim Zionists. So, I reiterate again that we
                      respect all those voices, those free voices who
                      want humanity to prevail at the end of this
                      battle, and we believe our battle in Palestine is
                      the battle of all against injustice, encroachment,
                      grudge, racism: a battle against all those evils
                      which the American people oppose.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><span>All
                        the more so because this conflict will not be
                        over with the end of this war. It is an open
                        conflict. So, while we understand these voices
                        will not be translated into policies overnight,
                        since this is an open conflict, these voices
                        will have a significant impact in the future.
                        There have been some important American examples
                        such as Rachel Corrie who stood before the
                        bulldozer in the past in Rafah. </span><em>[Note:
                        Corrie was an American activist who was killed
                        in Rafah, Gaza, in 2003 as she tried to prevent
                        Israeli forces from demolishing Palestinian
                        homes.]</em></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill: </strong><span>I read the U.S. State
                        Department designation of you as a specially
                        designated terrorist and I’d like to hear your
                        comment on that designation.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>I believe the
                        Americans do not know Mohammed Al-Hindi. It is
                        the Israelis who introduced me to them, so this
                        designation is ultimately Israeli. They said,
                        “These are terrorists.” At the time, when they
                        designated me years ago, they said as deputy
                        secretary general of Islamic Jihad, he holds
                        responsibility for the movement’s acts of
                        resistance. So, the Americans took decisions
                        that had no value whatsoever like freezing
                        assets. I have never been to the U.S., nor do I
                        have a dime in American banks or other banks.
                        So, these decisions are just without any value
                        and have no bearing on the ground. I believe
                        these are Israeli decisions par excellence.</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">There
                      is a sheikh associated with the founding of the
                      Islamic Jihad movement. His name was Abd Al Aziz
                      Awda. He returned to Gaza after the Oslo Accord.
                      An American newspaper wrote about him at the time
                      saying he was a founding member of the Islamic
                      Jihad and mentioned his name among four names
                      which the paper said were dangerous and wanted. He
                      was told the Americans are saying so-and-so about
                      you. He said that is not important. What is
                      important is that Israel knows the truth.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;">The
                      Americans see the region with only one lens, which
                      is Israel’s, because it is their project. So, all
                      those decisions have no bearing and no value for
                      the resistance but only make us more determined.</p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Jeremy
                        Scahill</strong><span>: Is there</span><strong>
                      </strong><span>any message that you would want to
                        send to the American people or the U.S.
                        government?</span></p>
                    <p
style="color: rgb(54, 55, 55); font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><strong>Mohammed
                        Al-Hindi: </strong><span>The American people
                        are free people. The movements we see in
                        American universities and the voices of
                        important American figures give us hope. We
                        appreciate all this, and we believe that
                        humanity will prevail, hopefully soon.</span><strong>
                      </strong><span>For us, in Palestine, it is our
                        duty to fight the Zionist project as a threat
                        not just to the Palestinians but to the whole
                        region. In short, there can be no security or
                        stability in the region unless the Palestinian
                        people access their minimum rights. Now Al-Aqsa
                        Flood has brought the conflict back to square
                        one in a way no one could foresee. This is not
                        the message of Hamas alone. This is the message
                        of the Palestinian people as a whole.</span></p>
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