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<div class="moz-forward-container"><font size="1"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/10/29/the-palestinian-youth-movement-in-a-time-of-war/">https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/10/29/the-palestinian-youth-movement-in-a-time-of-war/</a></font></div>
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<div class="moz-forward-container"><font size="2"><b><i>October 29,
2023</i></b></font></div>
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<div class="moz-forward-container"><b><i><font size="5">The
Palestinian Youth Movement in a Time of War: An Interview
with Kaleem Hawa</font></i></b></div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><br>
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<div class="moz-forward-container"><span class="post_author_intro">by</span>
<span class="post_author"><a
href="https://www.counterpunch.org/author/bra3hevuna/"
rel="nofollow">Susie Day</a></span>
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<h3
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this isn’t enough for you to adopt
solidarity with Palestine, nothing ever was
going to be”: Kaleem Hawa and the
Palestinian Youth Movement</strong><img
class="tl-email-image" data-id="5203861"
src="https://gallery.tinyletterapp.com/0f86bffc414c3dbff9768777bfd39b58c3f338f3/images/db1fbd2d-1d22-c698-628a-175b865e7cf4.jpeg"
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<div>Kaleem Hawa is a young Palestinian writer
who has contributed eloquent pieces on art and
film to such publications as <em>The New York
Review of Books</em> and <em>Artforum. </em>But
he has no time for this now. He and his
comrades in the Palestinian Youth Movement
[PYM] are, to put it bluntly, in a war – war
that might seem to have begun recently, but
has actually been waged for decades against
Palestinians.<br>
<br>
The Palestinian Youth Movement, Kaleem tells
me, “is an organization committed to the total
liberation of Palestine and the return of the
Palestinian people, which means confronting
Zionism, imperialism, and Arab reaction; to
raise consciousness for Arabs in the diaspora.
I believe deeply in the work PYM is doing.” He
shows me “The Second Week,” an <a
href="http://mail01.tinyletterapp.com/Snidelines/the-palestinian-youth-movement-in-a-time-of-war-an-interview-with-kaleem-hawa/22824193-thenewinquiry.com/the-second-week/?c=8620623b-65a0-7fdd-c7da-e0a5d6d3d088"
style="mso-line-height-rule: exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;text-decoration: none;color: #3466CC !important;"
moz-do-not-send="true">article written by
PYM</a>, describing Gaza as the Israeli
bombing continues:</div>
<blockquote
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<div><em>If anything captures the work of the
second week, it is this. More than a
quarter of the homes in Gaza have been
leveled by the genocidal Zionist regime
and its imperial backers. Schools and
mosques, hospitals and bakeries – all have
been targeted …. Gaza’s entire health
system has collapsed. Their intention is
to break a spirit of resistance that
cannot be broken; six wars have not been
object lesson enough for them. At the time
of writing, the Zionists have murdered
2,055 Palestinian children … </em></div>
</blockquote>
<div> I need to ask Kaleem more…<br>
<br>
<strong>sd: </strong><em>On a panel last
week, you said, “Palestinians are not
victims; they are agents of revolutionary
history. There’s a great need to understand
armed resistance.” Do you stand by that now?</em><br>
<br>
<strong>Kaleem Hawa: </strong>Certainly.
That’s not to efface the immense suffering and
grief of the Palestinian people, who’ve lived
under genocidal violence for the last 75
years. But I do think that an overemphasis on
that “victim” framework leads to a contingent
solidarity – because ultimately, Palestinian
people are not asking for Western recognition.
They’re demanding a liberation of their lands
and their homes from a settler-colonial
project backed by the West. That liberation
necessarily engenders resistance in all forms.<br>
<br>
I think some in the solidarity movement have
had to confront the practical realities of
what Palestinian liberation means, and what
the Palestinian people believe, vis-à-vis
resistance. Ultimately, it’s been healthy for
a lot of people in solidarity with us to be
confronted with this.<br>
<br>
<strong>sd:</strong> <em>What’s the “</em>this<em>”
that we’re confronted with?</em><br>
<br>
<strong>Kaleem Hawa: </strong>That an
oppressed people, thinking through strategies
to achieve freedom and liberation amid
world-destroying conditions of settler
colonialism and military occupation, must
contend with an array of strategies – and some
of these will include armed resistance. The
American public’s thoughts on the propriety of
armed resistance are nowhere near as relevant
or important as the actions they take to end
that settler-colonial project.<br>
<br>
<strong>sd: </strong><em>What do you
think of the global reaction to the October
7 attack, and to Palestine, itself?</em><br>
<br>
<strong>Kaleem Hawa: </strong>The
response by Western governments, the military
contractors, intelligence services, business
communities, the media that serve as
propaganda arms for these governments is
totally expected – a rational calculus to
preserve Western imperial interests at all
costs. This strategy includes a total
dehumanization of Palestinian and Arab life,
to manufacture consent for the violence waged
against the Palestinian people now.<br>
<br>
That being said, it’s been really encouraging
to see, in the last two weeks, a surge of
people taking to the streets, demanding an end
to the seizure of Gaza and the attempts at
genocide. We’ve seen student mobilizations on
campuses; walkouts; calls for solidarity; work
stoppage from labor unions; people leading
direct actions and getting arrested. Across
the world, including in the Arab world, in the
Global South, we’ve seen an upswelling of
popular support for Palestine, with hundreds
of thousands in the streets. I think we’re
realizing very quickly that the Palestinian
struggle is emblematic of a larger struggle
against dispossession and imperial capitalism.<br>
<br>
<strong>sd: </strong><em>Usually, news
media frame this as “Israel versus Hamas,”
not “Israel versus Palestine.” What do you
think of this?</em><br>
<br>
<strong>Kaleem Hawa: </strong>I think
that this strategy uses an incredible amount
of media propaganda and misinformation to
vilify and use [Hamas as] as a political
cudgel against the broader Palestinian
liberation movement. Palestinian liberation is
not the project of any one institution.
Setting aside that Hamas itself is a complex
institution that includes political and
military and social formations, it’s important
to understand that the broad Palestinian and
Arab resistance is comprised of people of
various ideologies and tactics – armed
resistance is one of those. So we’re seeing
the Western playbook enshrining an enemy that
can be portrayed as evil, then used to
manufacture support for total violence against
an entire people. I think that’s what’s at
play here with the emphasis on Hamas.<br>
<br>
<strong>sd: </strong><em>It also creates
a scenario of the “bad Palestinians,” who
are making the good ones suffer.</em><br>
<br>
<strong>Kaleem Hawa: </strong>Right.
The double standard is unsurprising, but it’s
incredibly offensive, as well, to consider
that the Israeli Defense Force [IDF], which is
one of the world’s most genocidal
institutions, basically whitewashes the nature
of its violence against Palestinians. The IDF
created this language of the “most moral
fighting force in the world,” to create a
discursive frame in the West of
good-versus-evil, which helps to flatten any
understanding of the collective punishment
being waged against the Palestinian people –
and to undermine their right, morally and
legally, to resist that violence as an
occupied people.<br>
<br>
<strong>sd: </strong><em>I heard on <a
href="http://mail01.tinyletterapp.com/Snidelines/the-palestinian-youth-movement-in-a-time-of-war-an-interview-with-kaleem-hawa/22824197-www.npr.org/2023/10/23/1207933378/palestinian-deaths-in-the-occupied-west-bank-are-escalating?c=8620623b-65a0-7fdd-c7da-e0a5d6d3d088"
style="mso-line-height-rule: exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;text-decoration: none;color: #3466CC !important;"
moz-do-not-send="true">NPR this morning</a>
an interview with a woman in the West Bank,
where killings of Palestinians are
escalating. She was totally disgusted with
Fatah and the Palestinian Authority; I got
the impression that there are, or will be,
other Palestinian groups at play.</em><br>
<br>
<strong>Kaleem Hawa: </strong>It’s
important to understand that every major
political formation in Palestine is engaged in
an armed resistance project. This aspect is
not the entirety of Palestinian resistance,
but it’s something that Palestinians and Arabs
fundamentally agree on. It’s also important to
understand our analysis of the Palestinian
Authority [PA], which is an administrator on
behalf of Zionism, to tamp down Palestinian
resistance. I think the current resistance
we’re seeing in Palestine has struck a blow
against the PA, because people understand it
doesn’t represent the Palestinian people in
any meaningful sense.<br>
<br>
<strong>sd: </strong><em>How important
is it for us in the West to know who’s
fighting for Palestine, besides Hamas?</em><br>
<br>
<strong>Kaleem Hawa: </strong>It’s
always good to be informed. But I think the
important thing, for people in the Western
imperial core who want to be in in solidarity
with Palestinian liberation, is two key
demands. The first is a total
anti-normalization of Zionism. That means
Zionism <em>out</em> of all the political,
cultural, and civic institutions of life; an
end to arms transfers and
intelligence-sharing. It means recognizing
what Zionism is, an ethnonationalist program
predicated on the elimination of Palestinian
life and Palestinians’ dispossession from the
land. The second is understanding Palestinian
resistance as something that’s fundamentally
just. That’s what principled solidarity can
look like right now.<br>
<img class="tl-email-image" data-id="5204749"
src="https://gallery.tinyletterapp.com/0f86bffc414c3dbff9768777bfd39b58c3f338f3/images/c85823c1-9fc3-3297-a91f-804b134bbfa2.jpeg"
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moz-do-not-send="true" width="400"
height="266"><br>
<strong>sd: </strong><em>How important
are a ceasefire and humanitarian aid to
Gaza? Could these campaigns not, in some
way, promote the image of Palestinians as
victims?<br>
</em><br>
<strong>Kaleem Hawa: </strong>The
violence being waged right now against Gaza is
world-destroying. People are rightfully
calling for a ceasefire and an end to the
siege, so that they can bury their dead. So
they can help the more than one million
Palestinians displaced all across Gaza; so
they can mourn and honor our more than 5,000
martyrs, and the hundreds of children murdered
in this violence. I don’t think anyone should
make the mistake of feeling that calls for a
ceasefire mean in any way that Palestinians
are relinquishing their commitment to
resistance and to the liberation struggle for
Palestine.<br>
<br>
<strong>sd: </strong><em>How important
is it to determine who bombed the Al-Ahli
Hospital in Gaza City?<br>
</em><br>
<strong>Kaleem Hawa: </strong>I think
part of a longstanding Zionist strategy is to
reify a debate about the debate, so to speak;
to conceal the Zionist project’s fundamental
inhumanity. The mass media’s first line about
the al-Ahli Hospital was to say, essentially:
“It’s really confusing. We don’t know what to
believe about this event.” Others, like
Michelle Goldberg or Thomas Friedman in the <em>New
York Times</em>, have gone further, as
mouthpieces for the violence, to cite American
and Zionist intelligence as saying, fairly
decisively, that what happened was the result
of misfired rockets by the Palestinian
resistance.<br>
<br>
Both cases are a form of genocide denialism.
When you – in the context of the incredible,
repeated crimes by Zionism against the people
of Gaza – focus your platforms on a debate
about one particular war crime, it’s
ultimately an attempt to deny the structure of
violence that’s operating from the river to
the sea.<br>
<br>
Understand. This is not the first time that
Zionists have bombed a hospital; it will not
be the last. Let’s center our analyses on a
set of clear facts – which is that the
majority of hospitals in Gaza have now been
rendered inoperable by airstrikes and siege;
that Zionism has targeted tens of hospitals
and health centers and schools and places of
worship and food delivery and water
infrastructures; they’ve meted out total
collective punishment of a refugee population
of millions of people. Those are the
fundamental facts, and we should not be
distracted by attempts to undermine this
reality with a media debate about the debate.<br>
<br>
<strong>sd: </strong><em>People here are
talking about censorship, like Viet Thanh
Nguyen’s book event being canceled at 92NY
in Manhattan because he signed a <a
href="http://mail01.tinyletterapp.com/Snidelines/the-palestinian-youth-movement-in-a-time-of-war-an-interview-with-kaleem-hawa/22824201-www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2023/october/an-open-letter-on-the-situation-in-palestine?c=8620623b-65a0-7fdd-c7da-e0a5d6d3d088"
style="mso-line-height-rule: exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;text-decoration: none;color: #3466CC !important;"
moz-do-not-send="true">letter criticizing
Israel</a>, or NYU Student Body President
Ryna Workman losing her presidency and a job
offer for her newsletter expressing “<a
href="http://mail01.tinyletterapp.com/Snidelines/the-palestinian-youth-movement-in-a-time-of-war-an-interview-with-kaleem-hawa/22824205-theintercept.com/2023/10/16/pro-palestine-students-campus-gaza-war/?c=8620623b-65a0-7fdd-c7da-e0a5d6d3d088"
style="mso-line-height-rule: exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;text-decoration: none;color: #3466CC !important;"
moz-do-not-send="true">absolutely
solidarity</a>” with Palestinians. I’ll
also add that CounterPunch has gotten hit;
the site’s been under bot attack for several
days.</em><br>
<br>
<strong>Kaleem Hawa: </strong>It
probably means you’re doing good work.
Pushback like this is a sign that you’re
threatening the system.<br>
<br>
<strong>sd:</strong> <em>Do you see this
“pushback” as part of the struggle?</em><br>
<br>
<strong>Kaleem Hawa: </strong>The
first thing to understand is that it’s an
apparatus for surveillance, imprisonment,
recrimination that’s part of the rollback of
protections for people across the West. The
decimation of unions, the expansion of the
surveillance state – many of the repressive
tactics we’re seeing brought against
Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims are systems
that were developed to repress Black people
and the Black liberation struggle.<br>
<br>
I personally believe that we need to watch
developments in repression and surveillance –
not because they’re unexpected, but because
they represent an overall preparation for
responding to dissent by liberation struggles,
by everyone fighting for a more just world.
There’s a dialectical relationship between
what we’re seeing here, and Palestine.
Palestine is being used as the spear tip, but
the fundamental base doesn’t strategically
discriminate.<br>
<br>
We’re seeing this, for example, with Stop Cop
City in in Atlanta<strong>.</strong> We know
police officers are training with the Zionist
entity. Just last week, police in Atlanta
performed a training operation where they
tried to “rescue <a
href="http://mail01.tinyletterapp.com/Snidelines/the-palestinian-youth-movement-in-a-time-of-war-an-interview-with-kaleem-hawa/22824209-x.com/micahinatl/status/1715053508033163623?c=8620623b-65a0-7fdd-c7da-e0a5d6d3d088"
style="mso-line-height-rule: exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;text-decoration: none;color: #3466CC !important;"
moz-do-not-send="true">hostages from Hamas</a>”
– in Atlanta. These systems are mutually
reinforcing. What we’re seeing done to
Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims has been and
will be done again to everyone in the West.<br>
<br>
The repression we’re seeing now is incredibly
significant, but people should not be afraid.
Now is the time for courage; to fight back.
This moment is clarifying, because it’s shown
the Arab popular masses that Zionism is, in
effect, a threat to all Arab peoples; that
it’s able, for example, to launch airstrikes
against three neighboring countries in the
last two weeks. And that reactionary Arab
governments empowered by Western monetary
institutions and a global weapons trade do not
fundamentally represent their people.<br>
<br>
<strong>sd: </strong><em>What is PYM
doing in all this?</em><br>
<br>
<strong>Kaleem Hawa: </strong>There’s
our Popular University, which helps to
disseminate educational resources, to
coordinate the translation of revolutionary
texts. PYM recently put out a toolkit on what
is happening in Palestine; <a
href="http://mail01.tinyletterapp.com/Snidelines/the-palestinian-youth-movement-in-a-time-of-war-an-interview-with-kaleem-hawa/22824213-docs.google.com/document/d/1ol9gjnwto99mpzxnrgl0zlvs-fw0vc6mepbjhujhtbo/edit?c=8620623b-65a0-7fdd-c7da-e0a5d6d3d088"
style="mso-line-height-rule: exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;text-decoration: none;color: #3466CC !important;"
moz-do-not-send="true">a list of resources</a>
and readings in Arabic and English that
includes subjects of national liberation,
settler colonialism, armed resistance,
Palestinian history.<br>
<br>
More broadly, PYM is leading a national <a
href="http://mail01.tinyletterapp.com/Snidelines/the-palestinian-youth-movement-in-a-time-of-war-an-interview-with-kaleem-hawa/22824217-www.instagram.com/p/cyooydda5h1/?c=8620623b-65a0-7fdd-c7da-e0a5d6d3d088"
style="mso-line-height-rule: exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;text-decoration: none;color: #3466CC !important;"
moz-do-not-send="true">March on Washington
on November 4</a>. We encourage everyone to
come, to organize buses from their community,
get their institutions and organizations
involved, to endorse and support.<br>
<br>
<strong>sd: </strong><em>Can I ask how
you personally are handling this right now?
Most of us are deeply upset – don’t you
think acknowledging real emotion ultimately
brings more intelligence to a movement?</em><br>
<br>
<strong>Kaleem Hawa: </strong>One
hundred percent. Here, in New York, we held a
vigil the night of the Al-Ahli Hospital
massacre, in Washington Square Park. Hundreds
and hundreds of people came. So we have this
vigil; we want to read the names of our
martyrs; and we can’t do it. Because, at this
point, a list doesn’t exist, due to the sheer
scale and immensity of the violence.<sup>*</sup><br>
<br>
Yet we have a moment where the crowd sings
together and mourns together and is furious
together and joyful, and this is interwoven
with political education about settler
colonialism in Palestine – and with demands
for action, concrete things people can do.
This vigil was an encapsulation for me of just
how important organizing, connected to people,
is. It’s not dismissive of people’s emotions;
it channels them to continue our work. Yeah,
it was a really beautiful moment for us.<br>
<br>
<strong>sd: </strong><em>I feel like
this time is a social, political tipping
point, where people who used to be friends
may never speak to each other again. So much
is at stake, not just in terms of individual
personal relationships, but in how those
relationships then move out into society and
explode.</em><br>
<br>
<strong>Kaleem Hawa: </strong>Yes. Our
conversation has been about organizing and
history and strategy, these types of things.
But it must be emphasized that what’s being
done to Gaza by the U.S. and Israel, is total
horror. It’s incredibly difficult to see the
destruction of civilian infrastructure, all of
our martyrs, the thousands of children
martyred. I don’t have any other word for it:
it’s just horror. For me, personally, there
are moments where I’ve let myself feel immense
grief for my people. But there’s also rage,
rage and anger at this system.<br>
<br>
Being part of a movement like PYM has been
life-saving. To be able to focus on doing what
we can –I’d encourage anyone reading this,
who’s feeling similarly, to join an
organization. To organize their communities
and families and workplaces around this topic.
But I’m not gonna lie. It makes you really
angry to see the masks that have come off in
the last two weeks – and clarifying to
understand who was not ever in solidarity with
Palestinian people in the first place…<br>
<br>
How do I put this? There are people who have
made a career off Palestine, off of
essentially metabolizing our pain and our
resistance, appointing themselves as
pseudo-spokespeople or intellectual historians
of this moment, who have been shown to be
fundamentally unqualified to do so,
essentially that they’re cowards. To avoid
giving specific examples, I’ll say that I’ve
found refuge in my comrades in PYM, and in
those who’ve shown principled, unwavering
solidarity with the Palestinian people. This
is a clarifying moment, because, if this has
not been enough for you to adopt solidarity
with Palestinians, nothing ever was going to
be.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div style="text-align: center;"># # #</div>
<h6
style="text-align: left;display: block;font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style: normal;font-weight: normal;letter-spacing: normal;line-height: 125%;margin-top: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 20px;margin-left: 0;padding: 0;font-size: 12px;color: #606060 !important;">—susie
day, 2023<br>
</h6>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h6
style="display: block;font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style: normal;font-weight: normal;letter-spacing: normal;line-height: 125%;margin-top: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 20px;margin-left: 0;padding: 0;text-align: left;font-size: 12px;color: #606060 !important;">_____<br>
<sup>*</sup>A list of “Palestinian Martyrs
Since October 7, 2023” is given in “The
Second Week,” by the Palestinian Youth
Movement in <a
href="http://mail01.tinyletterapp.com/Snidelines/the-palestinian-youth-movement-in-a-time-of-war-an-interview-with-kaleem-hawa/22824193-thenewinquiry.com/the-second-week/?c=8620623b-65a0-7fdd-c7da-e0a5d6d3d088"
style="mso-line-height-rule: exactly;-ms-text-size-adjust: 100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;text-decoration: none !important;color: #3466CC !important;"
moz-do-not-send="true"><em>The New Inquiry</em></a><br>
<br>
photo 1 credit: Kaleem Hawa<br>
photo 2 credit: Reuters</h6>
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