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<h2><b>Transcript: Hugo Chavez
Interview</b></h2><font size=3>
<a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/print?id=1134098" eudora="autourl">
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/print?id=1134098<br><br>
</a></font><h3><b>Venezuelan President On Rocky Relations with
Washington<br><br>
</b></h3><font size=3><b>Sep. 16, 2005</b> - In his first American
broadcast interview since the Rev. Pat Robertson called for his
assassination last month, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez told ABC News'
Ted Koppel today that he has evidence of a United States plan to invade
Venezuela. In New York for the U.N. Summit, Chavez discussed his strained
relationship with the United States government, Robertson's comments and
the United States' dependence on Venezuela's oil supply. <br><br>
Following is a rush transcript of the interview, which airs tonight on
"Nightline" at 11:35 p.m. ET. <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> Tell me a little bit -- most Americans don't know very
much about you. Tell me a little bit about your youth, when you were a
young man. <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b> I would like to welcome you. And I
would like to greet all of the people who are watching this program and
who are listening to it. I was a farm kid from the plains of South
Venezuela, from a very poor family. I grew up in a palm tree house with
an earthen floor. <br><br>
And later, we were lucky enough, my brothers and I, to be able to study.
There were six of us. My father and my mother were both teachers. They
inculcated to us the importance of studies. But out of every 100 children
from my town, 99 didn't get to study. That was poverty, the poorest of
the farmers. <br><br>
Later, I was a young athlete. I was telling this friend here from San
Francisco so that one of my greatest dreams was to be a pitcher for the
San Francisco Giants. I played a lot of baseball. It was a passion of
mine. <br><br>
I painted. I wanted to be a painter. I sang. I still sing a little bit. I
still paint a little bit. And I can still bat a bit. <br><br>
But afterwards, when I was 16, I became a soldier. But I became a
soldier, not because I had a military vocation initially, but because it
was the only way that that young, poor-class child from the provinces
could go to the center of the country: through baseball, which was my
dream. <br><br>
But I liked the army. And I became a patriotic soldier. And that's what I
am, essentially, a patriotic soldier. <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> I read that you discovered later in your life that your
grandfather or your great grandfather was a guerrilla fighter. Is that
correct? <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>That was from a previous time, a
hundred years ago. Yes, he was a great grandfather of mine. <br><br>
But the point is that when I was a kid, I would hear stories from my
grandmother and my great grandmother -- you know, when they talk --
grandmothers tell stories. <br><br>
And when I was a kid, I heard that I had a murderous grandfather. And
that stuck with me. <br><br>
But later, when I became a man, and I was reading the history of my
fatherland, a history that starts in the 20th century, I conciliated
myself to the fact that he was not a murderer; he was a guerrilla. He was
one of the last men on horseback. This was the time of Pancho Villa. This
was the time of Emiliano Zapata. This was the time of San Dino (ph). This
was the time of (inaudible) the gentleman of hope in Brazil (inaudible).
He was one of those last horsemen who took on imperialism. <br><br>
My great grandfather was one of them. I discovered the truth. <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> You're a man who loves language. You're a man of many
words. I'm going to put you to a test now. <br><br>
Give me three words that describe you. <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>A soldier-esque man. I would add the
word "patriot." I would add the word "revolutionary."
<br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> A revolutionary has to be in revolt against something.
What are you revolting against? <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>I've been in revolt for years against
ignominy, against injustice, against inequality, against immorality,
against the exploitation of human beings. <br><br>
One of the greatest rebels, who I really admire: Christ. He was a rebel.
He ended up being crucified. He was a great rebel. He rebelled against
the established power that subjugated. That is what rebellion is; it's
rebellion out of love for human beings. In truth, that is the cause, the
cause of love: love for every human being, for every women, for every
child, for every man, for every brother. <br><br>
I believe you to be a brother. I don't see you as above or below. I don't
feel superior or inferior to you. We're on an equal basis. Your
cameraman, your photograph are equal. The men and women who are seeing
you, who are seeing us are equal. They're true brothers. <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> Well, maybe the photographer; not the cameraman. <br><br>
(LAUGHTER) <br><br>
No, no, I'm just teasing. He's an old friend. <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>It's really hot here in New York.
<br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> It's very hot here in New York. <br><br>
I appreciate what you say and I think I understand that you don't feel
that same way; you don't have that same love for the government of the
United States. <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>Yes. There are profound differences,
very profound with this government, this administration since Mr. Bush
came into power. We have been subjected -- Venezuela has been subjected
to permanent aggression against us and against me personally. <br><br>
There has been no respect for the sovereignty of Venezuelans, for the
chief of state (inaudible) Venezuela. <br><br>
On the other hand, I remind you that last night I gathered here with some
Democrats and Republicans. Tomorrow, I'm going to be with some others.
<br><br>
Recently, Jackson was there and I'm going to see him tomorrow. <br><br>
This morning, I saw Danny Grover (ph). We're good friends. And I said to
them, and I say to everyone, that it was different with Clinton.
<br><br>
With President Clinton, I sat down just like we are now on at least three
occasions. There was no occasion for disrespect on either side. <br><br>
Now, this administration has truly broken with all protocols of democracy
and respect for people. The coup d'etat against Venezuela was
manufactured in Washington. My death was ordered. And it was ordered
recently. <br><br>
Reverend Pat Robertson, who is very close to the president, asked for me
to be physically eliminated, for me to be killed. <br><br>
And so perhaps Christ recommends that when we get a slap in our cheek, we
turn the other cheek. We have both cheeks red and blue because we've
turned the cheek so many times. But we never (inaudible) because we do
love the people of the United States. We want to be brothers and sisters
of the people of the United States, independently of their government.
<br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> I'm going to perhaps shock you a little, but these are
your words. You called President Bush an asshole. <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>I've said various things about him. I
don't know if I actually used that word. But I have been really hard on
him. <br><br>
But I have always responded to things that I was termed. I was termed a
threat, a threat to the continent. It was said of me that I harbor
terrorists. <br><br>
There have been official reports issued from the State Department. The
secretary of state has gone through South America saying publicly that I
have to be isolated; that I am a threat; that I am using oil to subvert
order in Latin America. Some secretaries of state -- other secretaries of
state, that I am allied with drug traffickers -- a series of lies and
aggressionists that sometimes I respond to. And sometimes we raise the
tone. <br><br>
We wait to get signals, and we respond to signals we receive from
Washington. <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> So you haven't got any -- you haven't received any good
signals lately? <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>Really good signals? No. You know
where right now my medical team is? In the presidential plane, 200
kilometers from here. The government of the United States, in violation
of the laws of the United States and conventions, prevented my doctors
from coming to New York. Where is the chief of staff of my military
detachment and my chief of security? On the plane. They've been locked
into the plane, two days. They can't come out of the plane. <br><br>
Those are the signals we're receiving. Yesterday they issued a report
saying that Venezuela does not cooperate in the fight against drugs.
Absolutely false. We have broken records this year in confiscation of
cocaine in the fight against drug trafficking. Those are the false
aggressions, the false signals we've been receiving. <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> I've been told by contacts of mine in the U.S.
intelligence community that you have members of Al Qaida, you have
members of other terrorist groups who are allowed to operate within
Venezuela. Not true? <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>It's absolutely false. And one time
someone said that bin Laden -- did anyone ever say bin Laden could be in
Venezuela? <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> Not to my knowledge. <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>Those are part of the lies that are
circulating. So the lies haven't reached that point, but it's absolutely
false. <br><br>
But it's part of the whole chain of rumors in this campaign to even
justify my death, because recently Pat Robertson and an ex-CIA agent
added that I should already be dead because, since I'm a threat, you have
to liquidate the threats, you have to wipe them out, you have to kill
them. That would justify any greater (inaudible) aggression against us.
<br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> It was a foolish thing to say, and Pat Robertson admitted
later that it was a foolish thing to say. And certainly no one from the
government condoned what he said. <br><br>
Why do you take what a private citizen says, foolish as it may have been,
and ascribe it to the U.S. government? <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>Well, take a look at this. <br><br>
The U.S. administration has to reject -- should have rejected the term of
terrorist that Robertson used. The U.S. administration seriously sinned
with respect to international and national laws, because the call to
murder a chief of state is, in accordance with international law,
terrorism. <br><br>
So this gentleman, Robertson, should be under arrest by the government of
the United States -- silence. <br><br>
Consequently, harboring a terrorist, but not only Robertson -- there have
been television channels in Miami, various people, including some
Venezuelan terrorists who participated in the coup d'etat and who lived
here in the United States freely -- went to request my death, and the
government of this country does absolutely nothing. <br><br>
So they are harboring terrorism, independently of whether or not
Robertson (inaudible) of a personality. But that is not the main issue.
The main issue is that on television, in front of millions of people, he
justified my assassination. <br><br>
And later, he said, no, it was not assassination. It was kidnapping. But
that's also terrorism. <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> If one looks at your record, one could easily come to the
conclusion that you would like to put pressure on the United States.
<br><br>
You have spoken in the past of cutting off Venezuelan oil to the United
States. You have signed new agreements with China. You have visited
India. There is a sense that you want to be able to bring the United
States to its knees. <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>It's very difficult for someone to
bring the empire to its knees. That is not my pretension. That would be
something totally disproportional. <br><br>
What we do want to do is have both of us on our feet -- both of us
standing up or both of us sitting down. Or, if we kneel, let both of us
kneel. That would be to pray -- to pray, as we Christians pray. <br><br>
Now, there's the matter of oil. Look, let me clarify. And I would like to
clarify this for the people of the United States. The people of the
United States should know that we are the owners in a U.S. territory of a
great oil (inaudible) which has eight major refineries. That company has
a value in near $10 billion. <br><br>
We're one of the biggest investors of Latin America. I think we're the
prime investor of Latin America in the United States. We are giving
employment to more than 2,000 U.S. workers and their families. We are
paying taxes to the government of the United States. We cooperate with
many cities, with mayoralties, Houston. <br><br>
And now with Katrina, this awful drama that the United States is living
through, from the very first day I ordered a group -- a coordinating a
group of support being sent to where one of our refineries is located.
We've been helping. And we've been even rescuing people. <br><br>
Practically no one in the United States knows that we've donated millions
of dollars to the governorship of Louisiana, to the New Orleans Red
Cross. We're now giving care to more than 5,000 victims, and now we're
going to supply gasoline, freely in some cases, and with discounts in
other cases, to the poorest of communities, starting with New Orleans and
its surroundings. <br><br>
The people of the United States should know that. <br><br>
The only time that I have said where Venezuela would not supply oil to
the United States, it was no threat. It's rather to respond to a threat,
the threat of invasion. We have obtained evidence of something which
would be absolutely foolhardy, the invasion of Venezuela. That's where we
said that under those circumstances... <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> Let me stop you. <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>... there would be no oil. <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> Are you saying you have discovered evidence of an invasion
plan against Venezuela or are you saying "if" you discovered a
plan? <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>I'm telling you that I have evidence
that there are plans to invade Venezuela. Furthermore, we have
documentation: how many bombers to overfly Venezuela on the day of the
invasion, how many trans-Atlantic carriers, how many aircraft carriers
need to be sent to (inaudible) even during (inaudible). <br><br>
Recently, an aircraft carrier went to Curacao (inaudible) the fact that
the soldiers were on leave. <br><br>
That's a lie. They were doing movements. They were doing maneuvers. All
on documentation. The plan is called Balboa, where Venezuela is indicated
as an objective. <br><br>
And in the face of that scenario, I said that if that actually happens,
the United States should just forget the million and a half barrels of
oil. Because everyday since I've been in power for seven years, we
haven't missed it even one single day -- just one day, when we were
overthrown. We were overthrown by that coup -- oil sabotage -- which was
supported by Washington... <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> If I may, Mr. President, you say you have documentation of
this plan. Can I ask you now, on camera, will you make that documentation
available to me? <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>I can send to you -- I can't send it
all, but I can make sure I can send part of it to you. I can send it to
you. <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> Please. <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>I can send you maps and everything,
and you can show it to the United States citizens. What I can't tell you
his how we got it, to protect the sources, how we got it through military
intelligence. <br><br>
But nobody can deny it, because (inaudible) the Balboa plan. We are
coming up with the counter-Balboa plan. That is to say if the government
of the United States attempts to commit the foolhardy enterprise of
attacking us, it would be embarked on a 100-year war. We are prepared.
<br><br>
They would not manage to control Venezuela, the same way they haven't
been able to control Iraq. (inaudible) Venezuela, my impression is that
there would be a movement of a resistance in other parts of this
continent. Oil could reach $100 or $120 a barrel, among other things.
<br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> Can you understand why people think that you are
unfriendly toward the government of the United States? <br><br>
Among your closest friends: Cuba, Syria, Iran, Libya. These are all
countries that the United States regards as unfriendly, if not terrorist
countries themselves. <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>Well, Cuba is much more than a friend.
The people of Cuba and its leader, Fidel Castro, are much more than
friends. We are joined in a battle which is described in the plans of
each country and described in the roots of our history. <br><br>
Now, Cuba is being attacked -- assaulted by the United States, by the
government of the United States, and that has been the case for more than
40 years. This inhumane blockade, this unjustified blockade, the United
Nations has gotten tired of issuing pronouncements asking the United
States to cease the blockade. And Pope John Paul II -- and the
undignified, unjust, accusative, arbitrary blockade is being maintained.
<br><br>
The assaulted party is Cuba. We are brothers of Cuba. <br><br>
We are also friends of Gadhafi. We are part of the petroleum producing
companies. This morning I met with the president of Iran. We are members
of OPEC. <br><br>
And I'm also very close to Lula. I'm very close to (inaudible). I'm a
very good friend of the prime minister of Jamaica. I'm very close to the
representatives who came here last night, Delahunt from Massachusetts,
Burton, a Republican. Good friends. I have a lot of friends (inaudible).
<br><br>
Now, you can't say -- nobody can say that Venezuela is a country that
commits aggression against the United States or is an enemy of the United
States because it has open relations with (inaudible) world. We have open
relations with China (inaudible). With Colombia we have very good
relations. We have good relations with everyone. <br><br>
The only country, the only administration with whom we don't have good
relations on the face of the earth is the administration of Mr. Bush.
That's the only example (inaudible). We are friends of the king of Spain.
As we say in Venezuela, he is a good guy. The king of Malaysia
(inaudible). The emir of Qatar is my brother. <br><br>
I have friends throughout the entire world, kings, princes, presidents,
prime ministers. Only with Washington is where the relationship doesn't
work. <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> Let me put it very simply. <br><br>
(CROSSTALK/BREAK) <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> If the United States doesn't invade Venezuela, can the
people of the United States assume that Venezuela will continue supplying
as much oil to the United States as it has in the past? <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>Of course. Let me tell you something
further. <br><br>
If you give me a map, I'll show it to you very simply, very quickly. Most
all the U.S. companies work in Venezuela -- ChevronTexaco, ExxonMobil
(inaudible) Venezuela. And they are producing oil. <br><br>
And let me tell you that I meet very frequently with the managers and the
administrators, the leaders. Recently, the world director of Chevron came
to announce to me that they want to invest more than $5 billion in
(inaudible). They just won a gas license, ChevronTexaco. They are
operating (inaudible) Shell, from England. <br><br>
What's the name -- the Norwegian (inaudible), but especially the U.S.
companies. They are developing plans to continue to invest in Venezuela
in gas and oil. <br><br>
Pay attention. In these days of Katrina, today or tomorrow, a Venezuelan
ship with 300,000 barrels of gasoline should be arriving. It's the first
of four or five additional ships that we have sent to help to palliate
the (inaudible) and put the breaks on the (inaudible). That's what we're
doing. (inaudible) You hit me on one cheek, and I'll try to respond by
helping you. I don't care. We're not doing this for the administration.
We're doing it for the people of the United States. So that's how I
respond. <br><br>
We have no plans to alter in any way the supply of oil to the United
States. <br><br>
Furthermore, I would say that Venezuela has the chief, most important oil
reserves in the world. Do you know how much oil is left in the United
States reserve? Barely 20 billion barrels, with 20 million barrels a day
being consumed. <br><br>
Venezuela has 300 billion barrels for the reserve. We have the
second-most important reserve of gas in this continent of the United
States or in the world. <br><br>
Now we want to share that oil and that gas with the United States, but
also with the Caribbean, but also with China and also with India and also
with Argentina and Brazil. <br><br>
Now we are (inaudible) in the Orinoco River. I hope you could visit the
Orinoco and do a special program on oil, because what I must confirm is
that we offer the United States every guarantee for oil supply for 150
(ph) years more, when both of us will be pushing up daisies. <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> Mr. President, on that happy note, let me thank you.
You've been most generous with your time and it's been a pleasure talking
to you. <br><br>
Thank you very much indeed. <br><br>
<b>CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):</b>Let me thank you. I would like to
greet you, and I hope you can come to Venezuela. Let me invite you and
let us greet the entire people of the United States. <br><br>
Tomorrow I'm going to take a walk through some of the neighborhoods of
New York. We're going to a church to see Jesse Jackson (inaudible). And
then I'm going to play a baseball game on the field with some Yankees
(ph). <br><br>
We love the people of the United States, and our desire is to have a
world of brothers in peace. God grant that that be the case. <br><br>
Thank you. <br><br>
<b>KOPPEL:</b> Thank you, sir. <br><br>
END <br><br>
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