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Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 4:48 PM<br>
Subject: A Remarkable Jewish Woman Speaks Out -<br><br>
<br>
Shockingly honest<br>
======================<br>
<a href="http://www.thehandstand.org/archive/may2004/articles/aloni.htm" eudora="autourl">http://www.thehandstand.org/archive/may2004/articles/aloni.htm<br><br>
</a>A Remarkable Jewish Woman Speaks Out -- Shulamit Aloni<br><br>
She founded and was Chairperson of Civil Rights<br>
Party/Ratz 1973-95, and was a Member of the Israeli<br>
Knesset from 1974-96. In 1973-74 she was Minister<br>
without Portfolio for Human Rights, in 1992-93<br>
Minister of Education and Culture, in 1992-96 Member<br>
of The National Security Council, in 1993-96 Minister<br>
of Communication, Science and Art (and in 1995-96<br>
Second in the Cabinet). She was born in 1929.<br><br>
This interview was given to Attila Somfelvi of Ynet --<br>
the Web site associated with Yediot Aharonot Israel's<br>
largest circulating daily newspaper. The Interview<br>
was translated by Sol Salbe from the original (see<br>
bottom for additional attributions).<br><br>
Former Meretz Leader Shulamit Aloni has established a<br>
reputation for her critique of modern Israeli society.<br>
Recently, in front of hundreds of supporters of Yossi<br>
Beilin, who had just been elected head of Yahad,<br>
Shulamit Aloni -- "Oum Meretz" [The Meretz Mother (in<br>
Arabic)] -- settled accounts with everyone: stylishly,<br>
sharply and in her own inimitable style.<br><br>
No one escaped her acerbic tongue. They all 'caught<br>
it': the government, apathetic Israeli society, the<br>
army and even her left-wing colleagues who have fallen<br>
asleep at the wheel.<br><br>
"Stop being politically correct!" she lashed out. <br>
"It's time to tell the truth to the people, straight<br>
to their faces!"<br><br>
Now, following the election of Beilin, whom she<br>
supported, Aloni has given an exclusive interview to<br>
Ynet, explaining why she endorsed him ("he's been<br>
consistent on the issue of peace") but why she does<br>
not believe that the Left could recover anytime soon<br>
("populists").<br><br>
She warns against the disintegration of Israeli<br>
society ("gross insensitivity"), rules out any<br>
comeback in politics ("I don't miss it"), and states:<br>
"I am beginning to understand why a whole nation (the<br>
Germans) was able to say: 'We did not know.""<br><br>
Q: What do you mean when you say that you understand<br>
the Germans?<br><br>
Shulamit Aloni (SA): These days you meet people around<br>
the country who say: "I don't want to know, I have<br>
given up reading the papers." Do you know how many<br>
people are unwilling to read Gideon Levy and Amira<br>
Hass [Haaretz reporters in the Occupied Territories]<br>
because they simply don't want to know what is<br>
happening there? They do not deny the accuracy of<br>
these two journalists' articles, but they simply don't<br>
want to know.<br><br>
We have always angrily and justly rejected the<br>
Germans' claim that they "did not know". They
simply<br>
didn't want to know. They worshipped the Fuehrer and<br>
their army. We also have people who do not know and<br>
do not want to know. What they know is that they must<br>
display their patriotism. And what is more patriotic<br>
than a war?<br><br>
So now we have the national flag and coat of arms in<br>
every classroom, and we teach the students the anthem.<br>
There is even a fool [religious Likud MK Leah Ness]<br>
who proposed to write "In God We Trust " on our<br>
currency. Had she known that the Nazi army's belt<br>
carried the message: "God with us", she wouldn't have<br>
associated the Jews' God with money. But a patriotic<br>
hysteria is pervading here, and people just keep<br>
quiet.<br><br>
Q: You do raise quite a complex concept with that<br>
comparison<br><br>
SA: Our society is being undermined by gross<br>
insensitivity and by adulation of force. I am<br>
disturbed by our moral disintegration. I am disturbed<br>
by the arrogant and light-hearted way in which we kill<br>
and murder Palestinians. I am disturbed that when 400<br>
olive trees were uprooted in the Territories, no one<br>
was held to account. I cannot find any peace of mind<br>
anymore, when I see this Wall that we are building. <br>
We are pillaging the land and destroying the way of<br>
life of people who have lived in the same place for<br>
centuries. When Ariel Sharon's mates had their land<br>
expropriated, they received huge compensation. Yet we<br>
are busy destroying greenhouses, plantations and the<br>
vital infrastructures of three million people, and<br>
then pretend that we are the victims.<br><br>
I cannot live with the fact that our sharpshooters are<br>
killing people. I cannot live with the way we<br>
continually wail that we are the victim, and do not<br>
examine our own morality. It's important to realize<br>
that appalling as suicide bombings are, aerial<br>
bombardment kills more. While we feel the pain of our<br>
900 dead, we tend to forget that we have murdered 3000<br>
Palestinian civilians. We are the violent ones; we<br>
are the cheats. Our very foundations have been<br>
undermined by our adulation of force, and all this is<br>
called a democracy. There cannot be democracy when we<br>
rule over three million people who have no voice. We<br>
simply have to get out of there. We do not even try<br>
to understand that what the Palestinians want is<br>
sovereignty and human rights.<br><br>
Q: This gross insensitivity that you keep talking<br>
about, where does it come from?<br><br>
SA: There's an absolute moral thoughtlessness that<br>
stems from the powers that be. When General [Amos]<br>
Yadlin, the head of military colleges, writes an<br>
article stating that it is moral to kill women and<br>
children while carrying out a targeted liquidation,<br>
and a moral luminary like Professor Asa Kasher<br>
endorses his view, then you have a problem. Israeli<br>
Arabs get detained at the international airport, and<br>
their luggage is taken apart. There are instructions<br>
for more and more Left activists to be held up on<br>
their way abroad to force them to remain silent. Why?<br>
What is happening to us? But people remain silent so<br>
as not to get into trouble.<br><br>
Things happen here that drive you mad. Why was there<br>
no inquiry following the death of the American<br>
protester Rachel Corrie, who was run over? Why didn't<br>
the government condemn it? Why was there no inquiry<br>
when journalists were shot, which made it OK to murder<br>
left, right and center? The army uses sharpshooters<br>
who practice by shooting Arabs. The moral<br>
disintegration of our society is the direct<br>
consequence of what is happening in the Territories. <br>
We are responsible for the shedding of Jewish blood.<br><br>
Q: What does that mean? Is somebody making sure that<br>
Jewish blood gets shed as well?<br><br>
SA: In Yediot Aharonot, Nahum Barnea wrote the other<br>
day that Sharon had told him (and it wasn't only<br>
Sharon) that Jewish blood is the most efficient cement<br>
for maintaining a national consensus. When terrorism<br>
is on the wane, then people feel free to ask<br>
questions, critics can be heard and the spirit of<br>
defiance grows. There's no mileage in non-existent<br>
terrorism.<br><br>
I ask you, wasn't it obvious that there would be a<br>
response to our savage operations in the Gaza Strip? <br>
Everyone knew that there would be a response. Who,<br>
then, is responsible for the Jewish blood that is<br>
shed? We are. We, with all our might, continue to<br>
hit more and more. They use terrorism and we do the<br>
same, only harder. Our strategy is the strategy of<br>
force and not of reconciliation.<br><br>
Had we chosen the path of reconciliation, we would not<br>
have stuffed up [former Palestinian Authority Prime<br>
Minister] Abu Mazen during his period in office. <br>
These days, everyone agrees that the government and<br>
army were wrong in tripping him up. But in our<br>
country, we treat the army as sacred, as if it were a<br>
value in and by itself that unites us, and is our<br>
raison d'etre. There are many who think that it is<br>
not the state which has its army, but the army which<br>
has its state.<br><br>
Q: How is this expressed?<br><br>
SA: We have just bought extremely sophisticated planes<br>
that cost umpteen billion dollars. Who needed them? <br>
We could have spent this money on health and relieving<br>
poverty. We are in peace with Egypt and Jordan. <br>
Syria is seeking peace and is no longer a factor. <br>
Iraq is not a threat, and Iran is the problem of the<br>
whole world. But [Iranian-born Defense Minster] Shaul<br>
Mofaz has already jumped up and threatened the<br>
Iranians, in Persian, that he would bomb their nuclear<br>
reactor. What's he getting excited about?<br><br>
For the past 37 years, our Jewish paranoia has been<br>
stoked by brainwashing. We get told that they want to<br>
exterminate us. Who are "they"? We are at peace
with<br>
Egypt and Jordan, and these two countries do not<br>
threaten us anymore. So who is going to throw us into<br>
the sea ... the Palestinians? But this is the kind of<br>
paranoia that is being fostered here. The present war<br>
is not a war of survival, but a colonial war.<br><br>
Q: When you say that everyone remains silent, do you<br>
include the Israeli Left?<br><br>
SA: Yes. It was wrong for members of the Left to lash<br>
out against the refuseniks. In a morally degenerated<br>
state that forces women to give birth by the roadside,<br>
we ought to be praising our refuseniks, instead of<br>
attacking them. But everyone wants to be careful<br>
because everyone wants to show how patriotic they are.<br><br>
I regard myself as very patriotic, but a true patriot<br>
is one who voices disapproval of our moral<br>
degeneration. I am told that we need to be populists;<br>
we have to be popular, grovel to the masses in order<br>
to attract them. It's easy to sway the mob.<br><br>
There`s a tendency around the world to frown upon<br>
nationalism, but in our country we nail it to our<br>
mastheads. It's a sin committed by all the political<br>
parties. The Left is so besotted with returning to<br>
power that it is willing to adapt the Right's agenda<br>
to get there.<br><br>
Q: Will the election of Yossi Beilin as head of Yahad,<br>
in reality the Left, change anything?<br><br>
SA: I can't see any changes for the moment. I am out<br>
of politics, and one shouldn't offer advice without<br>
accepting responsibility. I supported Yossi because<br>
he has been consistent in his struggle for peace. I<br>
do not believe that we can renew and rebuild Israeli<br>
society on the basis of liberty, justice and peace<br>
without first making peace. It's our worst, most<br>
festering wound.<br><br>
Q: Do you think the Left can find a new track?<br><br>
SA: I am not a believer. I do not believe anymore. I<br>
only hope that the dynamics [of the situation] will<br>
push it forward. But those dynamics will only arise<br>
when [Beilin's opponent in the ballot] Ran Cohen),<br>
Beilin and [Knesset member] Chaim Oron and the whole<br>
gang wake up.<br><br>
In recent times the only Meretz voices heard were<br>
those of [left- wingers] Zahava Gal-on and Roman<br>
Bronfman. But their voices were those of individuals,<br>
not of a party. I want everyone to wake up, to relate<br>
to the groups that are fighting for peace, to speak<br>
out, to attend meetings, to criticize the government.<br><br>
It's time we set up political stalls in the streets. <br>
One has to be daring, and not be constrained by<br>
political correctness. We have to tell the truth; to<br>
state that our struggle with the Palestinians is a<br>
colonial struggle. We have to declare that what we<br>
are doing in the Territories is terrible. We have to<br>
admit that we too bombed the British people when they<br>
occupied us. We must show that we are taking money<br>
for the poor and investing it in the Territories. The<br>
minute there's an outcry on this subject, when there's<br>
criticism of resources being wasted, that's when the<br>
country will begin to change.<br><br>
If it were up to me, I would take the residents of<br>
[poor development towns] Dimona and Yeroham to the<br>
Territories and show them the settlers' nice houses<br>
surrounded by greenery with matching green roofs. Let<br>
them see the destruction [of the Palestinian<br>
infrastructure], the settlers-only roads, and that<br>
monstrous fence. Let them see, so that they would<br>
never be able to say that they didn't know. When they<br>
see it, and remember that they haven't been paid their<br>
wages for months, they may stop voting for the Likud.<br><br>
Q: Do you see yourself making a comeback in politics?<br><br>
SA: I do not see myself coming back. I raise my<br>
voice, I lecture and I write articles. But I am not<br>
coming back. I don't miss politics. The fact that<br>
Sharon and Peres are still at it at their age does not<br>
obligate me to do likewise. Spain has got a<br>
44-year-old Prime Minster. Tony Blair wasn't quite<br>
fifty when he came into power. It' s about time we<br>
let the new generation develop. Let's not cut them<br>
down. Remember what they did to Mitzna.<br><br>
Q: Who is an appropriate leader: Barak, Netanyahu?<br><br>
SA: Ehud Barak was a real disaster, and I hope they<br>
never let him set foot in politics ever again. He<br>
failed, because he was always up to tricks. Barak<br>
totally misunderstood people's attitudes. When the<br>
throngs shouted "anyone but Shas", he did not<br>
comprehend what they were seeking. As a result, we<br>
have the growth of the [secularist but redneck]<br>
Shinui. He brought disaster upon disaster down on us.<br>
He never implemented the agreements [with the<br>
Palestinians] that the Israeli government had signed. <br>
He even poked fun at Netanyahu, who had given [back]<br>
Hebron, and boasted that in his time in office he had<br>
given nothing to the Palestinians. As for Netanyahu,<br>
I do not subscribe to his economic policy, but at<br>
least Netanyahu is a man of action. Barak had nothing<br>
but words.<br><br>
[Translated by Sol Salbe from the original Hebrew. <br>
Salbe used a structure provided by Edith Rubinstein of<br>
Women in Black (Belgium), who had in turn used a<br>
French translation by Pascal Fenaux.] <br><br>
<br><br>
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